How does find prevent endless loops (e.g. when renaming files while finding them)? [duplicate]
This question already has an answer here:
Will we ever “find” files whose names are changed by “find”? Why not?
1 answer
Please consider the following command:
find . -type f -name '*.*' -exec mv '{}' '{}_foo' ;
How does find prevent endless loops in this case?
On one hand, I believe to know that find does not work like shell globs do, i.e. it does not fetch a list of all *.jpg files, stores that list internally and then processes the list entries. Instead, it gets the files to process "incrementally" from the underlying O/S and processes each of them as soon as it knows about it (let's ignore a certain amount of buffering which might take place since this is irrelevant to the question). After all, as far as I have understood, this is the main advantage of find over globs in directories which have a lot of files in them.
If this is true, I would like to understand how find prevents endless loops. In the example above, 1.jpg would be renamed to 1.jpg_foo. From discussions on StackOverflow and elsewhere, I know that renaming might result in the file (name) occupying a different slot in the directory file list, so chances are that find encounters that file a second time, renames it again (to 1.jpg_foo_foo), and so on.
Obviously, this does not happen. Could somebody please give some insight?
linux bash find
asked 2 days ago
BinarusBinarus
249111
marked as duplicate by ilkkachu bash
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2 days ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
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This question already has an answer here:
Will we ever “find” files whose names are changed by “find”? Why not?
1 answer
Please consider the following command:
find . -type f -name '*.*' -exec mv '{}' '{}_foo' ;
How does find prevent endless loops in this case?
On one hand, I believe to know that find does not work like shell globs do, i.e. it does not fetch a list of all *.jpg files, stores that list internally and then processes the list entries. Instead, it gets the files to process "incrementally" from the underlying O/S and processes each of them as soon as it knows about it (let's ignore a certain amount of buffering which might take place since this is irrelevant to the question). After all, as far as I have understood, this is the main advantage of find over globs in directories which have a lot of files in them.
If this is true, I would like to understand how find prevents endless loops. In the example above, 1.jpg would be renamed to 1.jpg_foo. From discussions on StackOverflow and elsewhere, I know that renaming might result in the file (name) occupying a different slot in the directory file list, so chances are that find encounters that file a second time, renames it again (to 1.jpg_foo_foo), and so on.
Obviously, this does not happen. Could somebody please give some insight?
linux bash find
asked 2 days ago
BinarusBinarus
249111
marked as duplicate by ilkkachu bash
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2 days ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
2
In your example, the renamed file wouldn't be covered by the match since it would end in_foo.
– Torin
2 days ago
OK, thanks - Fixed it.
– Binarus
2 days ago
Hmm, I didn't notice this had the bash tag. But this does look like the same question, just yell at me if you disagree...
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
@ilkkachu No, you are right. Despite searching thoroughly and for a long time, I did not find the other question. So your action is appropriate. The bash tag is here because I hoped to attract people who know both variants (i.e.findas well as globs) and could confirm that and tell me whyfindis faster by orders of magnitudes in some cases.
– Binarus
2 days ago
@Binarus, oh, hmm, I didn't realize you meant find vs globs as such an important point. That might be worth a question in itself, if it isn't here already. I think there's a couple of other points than just speed: standardization and batching come to mind.
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
This question already has an answer here:
Will we ever “find” files whose names are changed by “find”? Why not?
1 answer
Please consider the following command:
find . -type f -name '*.*' -exec mv '{}' '{}_foo' ;
How does find prevent endless loops in this case?
On one hand, I believe to know that find does not work like shell globs do, i.e. it does not fetch a list of all *.jpg files, stores that list internally and then processes the list entries. Instead, it gets the files to process "incrementally" from the underlying O/S and processes each of them as soon as it knows about it (let's ignore a certain amount of buffering which might take place since this is irrelevant to the question). After all, as far as I have understood, this is the main advantage of find over globs in directories which have a lot of files in them.
If this is true, I would like to understand how find prevents endless loops. In the example above, 1.jpg would be renamed to 1.jpg_foo. From discussions on StackOverflow and elsewhere, I know that renaming might result in the file (name) occupying a different slot in the directory file list, so chances are that find encounters that file a second time, renames it again (to 1.jpg_foo_foo), and so on.
Obviously, this does not happen. Could somebody please give some insight?
linux bash find
asked 2 days ago
BinarusBinarus
249111
This question already has an answer here:
Will we ever “find” files whose names are changed by “find”? Why not?
1 answer
Please consider the following command:
find . -type f -name '*.*' -exec mv '{}' '{}_foo' ;
How does find prevent endless loops in this case?
On one hand, I believe to know that find does not work like shell globs do, i.e. it does not fetch a list of all *.jpg files, stores that list internally and then processes the list entries. Instead, it gets the files to process "incrementally" from the underlying O/S and processes each of them as soon as it knows about it (let's ignore a certain amount of buffering which might take place since this is irrelevant to the question). After all, as far as I have understood, this is the main advantage of find over globs in directories which have a lot of files in them.
If this is true, I would like to understand how find prevents endless loops. In the example above, 1.jpg would be renamed to 1.jpg_foo. From discussions on StackOverflow and elsewhere, I know that renaming might result in the file (name) occupying a different slot in the directory file list, so chances are that find encounters that file a second time, renames it again (to 1.jpg_foo_foo), and so on.
Obviously, this does not happen. Could somebody please give some insight?
This question already has an answer here:
Will we ever “find” files whose names are changed by “find”? Why not?
1 answer
linux bash find
linux bash find
asked 2 days ago
BinarusBinarus
249111
asked 2 days ago
BinarusBinarus
249111
edited 2 days ago
Binarus
asked 2 days ago
BinarusBinarus
249111
asked 2 days ago
BinarusBinarus
249111
asked 2 days ago
BinarusBinarus
249111
249111
marked as duplicate by ilkkachu bash
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2 days ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
marked as duplicate by ilkkachu bash
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2 days ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
2
In your example, the renamed file wouldn't be covered by the match since it would end in_foo.
– Torin
2 days ago
OK, thanks - Fixed it.
– Binarus
2 days ago
Hmm, I didn't notice this had the bash tag. But this does look like the same question, just yell at me if you disagree...
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
@ilkkachu No, you are right. Despite searching thoroughly and for a long time, I did not find the other question. So your action is appropriate. The bash tag is here because I hoped to attract people who know both variants (i.e.findas well as globs) and could confirm that and tell me whyfindis faster by orders of magnitudes in some cases.
– Binarus
2 days ago
@Binarus, oh, hmm, I didn't realize you meant find vs globs as such an important point. That might be worth a question in itself, if it isn't here already. I think there's a couple of other points than just speed: standardization and batching come to mind.
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
2
In your example, the renamed file wouldn't be covered by the match since it would end in_foo.
– Torin
2 days ago
OK, thanks - Fixed it.
– Binarus
2 days ago
Hmm, I didn't notice this had the bash tag. But this does look like the same question, just yell at me if you disagree...
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
@ilkkachu No, you are right. Despite searching thoroughly and for a long time, I did not find the other question. So your action is appropriate. The bash tag is here because I hoped to attract people who know both variants (i.e.findas well as globs) and could confirm that and tell me whyfindis faster by orders of magnitudes in some cases.
– Binarus
2 days ago
@Binarus, oh, hmm, I didn't realize you meant find vs globs as such an important point. That might be worth a question in itself, if it isn't here already. I think there's a couple of other points than just speed: standardization and batching come to mind.
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
2
2
In your example, the renamed file wouldn't be covered by the match since it would end in
_foo.– Torin
2 days ago
In your example, the renamed file wouldn't be covered by the match since it would end in
_foo.– Torin
2 days ago
OK, thanks - Fixed it.
– Binarus
2 days ago
OK, thanks - Fixed it.
– Binarus
2 days ago
Hmm, I didn't notice this had the bash tag. But this does look like the same question, just yell at me if you disagree...
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
Hmm, I didn't notice this had the bash tag. But this does look like the same question, just yell at me if you disagree...
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
@ilkkachu No, you are right. Despite searching thoroughly and for a long time, I did not find the other question. So your action is appropriate. The bash tag is here because I hoped to attract people who know both variants (i.e.
find as well as globs) and could confirm that and tell me why find is faster by orders of magnitudes in some cases.– Binarus
2 days ago
@ilkkachu No, you are right. Despite searching thoroughly and for a long time, I did not find the other question. So your action is appropriate. The bash tag is here because I hoped to attract people who know both variants (i.e.
find as well as globs) and could confirm that and tell me why find is faster by orders of magnitudes in some cases.– Binarus
2 days ago
@Binarus, oh, hmm, I didn't realize you meant find vs globs as such an important point. That might be worth a question in itself, if it isn't here already. I think there's a couple of other points than just speed: standardization and batching come to mind.
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
@Binarus, oh, hmm, I didn't realize you meant find vs globs as such an important point. That might be worth a question in itself, if it isn't here already. I think there's a couple of other points than just speed: standardization and batching come to mind.
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Within a single directory, it may be as simple as reading the entire filelist before processing it (and strace makes it looks like that's what happens):
# keep reading entries first
openat(AT_FDCWD, ".", O_RDONLY|O_NOCTTY|O_NONBLOCK|O_NOFOLLOW|O_DIRECTORY) = 4
getdents(4, /* 1024 entries */, 32768) = 32752
getdents(4, /* 1024 entries */, 32768) = 32768
getdents(4, /* 426 entries */, 32768) = 13632
getdents(4, /* 0 entries */, 32768) = 0
close(4) = 0
(output abridged for readability)
# process stuff later
clone(...
wait4(...
--- SIGCHLD...
clone(...
wait4(...
--- SIGCHLD ...
In general, though, find does not prevent any loops at all. If you move files to a subdir, that happens multiple times:
mkdir -p sub/sub/sub/sub
find -type f -exec mv {} sub/{}_foo ;
This results in sub/sub/sub/sub/file_foo_foo_foo_foo and such things. (-depth might help in this case).
It's best to avoid any possible clashes in the first place instead of blindly relying on find employing some magic that just isn't there. Your question before your edit was a good solution, since it simply didn't match the already renamed file at all.
Even in cases where not strictly required, it's nice to make it clear that files can't and shouldn't be processed twice. We're renaming jpg files here and not foo files.
Also even if find in a single call will prevent processing files twice, there's always a risk the script as a whole will re-run and find will run a 2nd time, so you'll need safeguards in place either way.
answered 2 days ago
frostschutzfrostschutz
26.2k15282
Thank you very much and +1. Notably, the part of your answer with the recursive folder structure was very enlightening. In addition, I still think thatfindin general is not guaranteed to read the entire file list from a directory before processing the files, even though this was the case in your test. So I think I have learned that lesson: Just carefully craft renaming, moving, copying and the search pattern so thatfindwon't treat the same file twice.
– Binarus
2 days ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Within a single directory, it may be as simple as reading the entire filelist before processing it (and strace makes it looks like that's what happens):
# keep reading entries first
openat(AT_FDCWD, ".", O_RDONLY|O_NOCTTY|O_NONBLOCK|O_NOFOLLOW|O_DIRECTORY) = 4
getdents(4, /* 1024 entries */, 32768) = 32752
getdents(4, /* 1024 entries */, 32768) = 32768
getdents(4, /* 426 entries */, 32768) = 13632
getdents(4, /* 0 entries */, 32768) = 0
close(4) = 0
(output abridged for readability)
# process stuff later
clone(...
wait4(...
--- SIGCHLD...
clone(...
wait4(...
--- SIGCHLD ...
In general, though, find does not prevent any loops at all. If you move files to a subdir, that happens multiple times:
mkdir -p sub/sub/sub/sub
find -type f -exec mv {} sub/{}_foo ;
This results in sub/sub/sub/sub/file_foo_foo_foo_foo and such things. (-depth might help in this case).
It's best to avoid any possible clashes in the first place instead of blindly relying on find employing some magic that just isn't there. Your question before your edit was a good solution, since it simply didn't match the already renamed file at all.
Even in cases where not strictly required, it's nice to make it clear that files can't and shouldn't be processed twice. We're renaming jpg files here and not foo files.
Also even if find in a single call will prevent processing files twice, there's always a risk the script as a whole will re-run and find will run a 2nd time, so you'll need safeguards in place either way.
answered 2 days ago
frostschutzfrostschutz
26.2k15282
Thank you very much and +1. Notably, the part of your answer with the recursive folder structure was very enlightening. In addition, I still think thatfindin general is not guaranteed to read the entire file list from a directory before processing the files, even though this was the case in your test. So I think I have learned that lesson: Just carefully craft renaming, moving, copying and the search pattern so thatfindwon't treat the same file twice.
– Binarus
2 days ago
add a comment |
Within a single directory, it may be as simple as reading the entire filelist before processing it (and strace makes it looks like that's what happens):
# keep reading entries first
openat(AT_FDCWD, ".", O_RDONLY|O_NOCTTY|O_NONBLOCK|O_NOFOLLOW|O_DIRECTORY) = 4
getdents(4, /* 1024 entries */, 32768) = 32752
getdents(4, /* 1024 entries */, 32768) = 32768
getdents(4, /* 426 entries */, 32768) = 13632
getdents(4, /* 0 entries */, 32768) = 0
close(4) = 0
(output abridged for readability)
# process stuff later
clone(...
wait4(...
--- SIGCHLD...
clone(...
wait4(...
--- SIGCHLD ...
In general, though, find does not prevent any loops at all. If you move files to a subdir, that happens multiple times:
mkdir -p sub/sub/sub/sub
find -type f -exec mv {} sub/{}_foo ;
This results in sub/sub/sub/sub/file_foo_foo_foo_foo and such things. (-depth might help in this case).
It's best to avoid any possible clashes in the first place instead of blindly relying on find employing some magic that just isn't there. Your question before your edit was a good solution, since it simply didn't match the already renamed file at all.
Even in cases where not strictly required, it's nice to make it clear that files can't and shouldn't be processed twice. We're renaming jpg files here and not foo files.
Also even if find in a single call will prevent processing files twice, there's always a risk the script as a whole will re-run and find will run a 2nd time, so you'll need safeguards in place either way.
answered 2 days ago
frostschutzfrostschutz
26.2k15282
Thank you very much and +1. Notably, the part of your answer with the recursive folder structure was very enlightening. In addition, I still think thatfindin general is not guaranteed to read the entire file list from a directory before processing the files, even though this was the case in your test. So I think I have learned that lesson: Just carefully craft renaming, moving, copying and the search pattern so thatfindwon't treat the same file twice.
– Binarus
2 days ago
add a comment |
Within a single directory, it may be as simple as reading the entire filelist before processing it (and strace makes it looks like that's what happens):
# keep reading entries first
openat(AT_FDCWD, ".", O_RDONLY|O_NOCTTY|O_NONBLOCK|O_NOFOLLOW|O_DIRECTORY) = 4
getdents(4, /* 1024 entries */, 32768) = 32752
getdents(4, /* 1024 entries */, 32768) = 32768
getdents(4, /* 426 entries */, 32768) = 13632
getdents(4, /* 0 entries */, 32768) = 0
close(4) = 0
(output abridged for readability)
# process stuff later
clone(...
wait4(...
--- SIGCHLD...
clone(...
wait4(...
--- SIGCHLD ...
In general, though, find does not prevent any loops at all. If you move files to a subdir, that happens multiple times:
mkdir -p sub/sub/sub/sub
find -type f -exec mv {} sub/{}_foo ;
This results in sub/sub/sub/sub/file_foo_foo_foo_foo and such things. (-depth might help in this case).
It's best to avoid any possible clashes in the first place instead of blindly relying on find employing some magic that just isn't there. Your question before your edit was a good solution, since it simply didn't match the already renamed file at all.
Even in cases where not strictly required, it's nice to make it clear that files can't and shouldn't be processed twice. We're renaming jpg files here and not foo files.
Also even if find in a single call will prevent processing files twice, there's always a risk the script as a whole will re-run and find will run a 2nd time, so you'll need safeguards in place either way.
answered 2 days ago
frostschutzfrostschutz
26.2k15282
Within a single directory, it may be as simple as reading the entire filelist before processing it (and strace makes it looks like that's what happens):
# keep reading entries first
openat(AT_FDCWD, ".", O_RDONLY|O_NOCTTY|O_NONBLOCK|O_NOFOLLOW|O_DIRECTORY) = 4
getdents(4, /* 1024 entries */, 32768) = 32752
getdents(4, /* 1024 entries */, 32768) = 32768
getdents(4, /* 426 entries */, 32768) = 13632
getdents(4, /* 0 entries */, 32768) = 0
close(4) = 0
(output abridged for readability)
# process stuff later
clone(...
wait4(...
--- SIGCHLD...
clone(...
wait4(...
--- SIGCHLD ...
In general, though, find does not prevent any loops at all. If you move files to a subdir, that happens multiple times:
mkdir -p sub/sub/sub/sub
find -type f -exec mv {} sub/{}_foo ;
This results in sub/sub/sub/sub/file_foo_foo_foo_foo and such things. (-depth might help in this case).
It's best to avoid any possible clashes in the first place instead of blindly relying on find employing some magic that just isn't there. Your question before your edit was a good solution, since it simply didn't match the already renamed file at all.
Even in cases where not strictly required, it's nice to make it clear that files can't and shouldn't be processed twice. We're renaming jpg files here and not foo files.
Also even if find in a single call will prevent processing files twice, there's always a risk the script as a whole will re-run and find will run a 2nd time, so you'll need safeguards in place either way.
answered 2 days ago
frostschutzfrostschutz
26.2k15282
answered 2 days ago
frostschutzfrostschutz
26.2k15282
answered 2 days ago
frostschutzfrostschutz
26.2k15282
answered 2 days ago
frostschutzfrostschutz
26.2k15282
26.2k15282
Thank you very much and +1. Notably, the part of your answer with the recursive folder structure was very enlightening. In addition, I still think thatfindin general is not guaranteed to read the entire file list from a directory before processing the files, even though this was the case in your test. So I think I have learned that lesson: Just carefully craft renaming, moving, copying and the search pattern so thatfindwon't treat the same file twice.
– Binarus
2 days ago
add a comment |
Thank you very much and +1. Notably, the part of your answer with the recursive folder structure was very enlightening. In addition, I still think thatfindin general is not guaranteed to read the entire file list from a directory before processing the files, even though this was the case in your test. So I think I have learned that lesson: Just carefully craft renaming, moving, copying and the search pattern so thatfindwon't treat the same file twice.
– Binarus
2 days ago
Thank you very much and +1. Notably, the part of your answer with the recursive folder structure was very enlightening. In addition, I still think that
find in general is not guaranteed to read the entire file list from a directory before processing the files, even though this was the case in your test. So I think I have learned that lesson: Just carefully craft renaming, moving, copying and the search pattern so that find won't treat the same file twice.– Binarus
2 days ago
Thank you very much and +1. Notably, the part of your answer with the recursive folder structure was very enlightening. In addition, I still think that
find in general is not guaranteed to read the entire file list from a directory before processing the files, even though this was the case in your test. So I think I have learned that lesson: Just carefully craft renaming, moving, copying and the search pattern so that find won't treat the same file twice.– Binarus
2 days ago
add a comment |
2
In your example, the renamed file wouldn't be covered by the match since it would end in
_foo.– Torin
2 days ago
OK, thanks - Fixed it.
– Binarus
2 days ago
Hmm, I didn't notice this had the bash tag. But this does look like the same question, just yell at me if you disagree...
– ilkkachu
2 days ago
@ilkkachu No, you are right. Despite searching thoroughly and for a long time, I did not find the other question. So your action is appropriate. The bash tag is here because I hoped to attract people who know both variants (i.e.
findas well as globs) and could confirm that and tell me whyfindis faster by orders of magnitudes in some cases.– Binarus
2 days ago
@Binarus, oh, hmm, I didn't realize you meant find vs globs as such an important point. That might be worth a question in itself, if it isn't here already. I think there's a couple of other points than just speed: standardization and batching come to mind.
– ilkkachu
2 days ago