Reason why a kingside attack is not justified












5















Given my lead in development in this game, the presence of an advanced pawn on the 5th rank and the arrangement of the pieces toward Black king, I think that an immediate kingside attack is justified.



enter image description here



In the game I ended up playing a move which I do not like very much now that I think about it (6.Bg5).



However, thinking about it now, I believe it would be best if I had started playing g3 with the idea of defending the knight in my next move (Nh4) as well as to support an upcoming advance f2-f4.



However, Stockfish seems to prefer to slowly manoeuvre on the other side of the board with b3, Nc3... but all of these moves seem to ignore White's lead in development. I can see that moving my pawn to b3 will eventually allow my light-squared bishop to be placed on d3. But I believe that is too slow.



Why is a kingside attack not justified here?










share|improve this question





























    5















    Given my lead in development in this game, the presence of an advanced pawn on the 5th rank and the arrangement of the pieces toward Black king, I think that an immediate kingside attack is justified.



    enter image description here



    In the game I ended up playing a move which I do not like very much now that I think about it (6.Bg5).



    However, thinking about it now, I believe it would be best if I had started playing g3 with the idea of defending the knight in my next move (Nh4) as well as to support an upcoming advance f2-f4.



    However, Stockfish seems to prefer to slowly manoeuvre on the other side of the board with b3, Nc3... but all of these moves seem to ignore White's lead in development. I can see that moving my pawn to b3 will eventually allow my light-squared bishop to be placed on d3. But I believe that is too slow.



    Why is a kingside attack not justified here?










    share|improve this question



























      5












      5








      5


      1






      Given my lead in development in this game, the presence of an advanced pawn on the 5th rank and the arrangement of the pieces toward Black king, I think that an immediate kingside attack is justified.



      enter image description here



      In the game I ended up playing a move which I do not like very much now that I think about it (6.Bg5).



      However, thinking about it now, I believe it would be best if I had started playing g3 with the idea of defending the knight in my next move (Nh4) as well as to support an upcoming advance f2-f4.



      However, Stockfish seems to prefer to slowly manoeuvre on the other side of the board with b3, Nc3... but all of these moves seem to ignore White's lead in development. I can see that moving my pawn to b3 will eventually allow my light-squared bishop to be placed on d3. But I believe that is too slow.



      Why is a kingside attack not justified here?










      share|improve this question
















      Given my lead in development in this game, the presence of an advanced pawn on the 5th rank and the arrangement of the pieces toward Black king, I think that an immediate kingside attack is justified.



      enter image description here



      In the game I ended up playing a move which I do not like very much now that I think about it (6.Bg5).



      However, thinking about it now, I believe it would be best if I had started playing g3 with the idea of defending the knight in my next move (Nh4) as well as to support an upcoming advance f2-f4.



      However, Stockfish seems to prefer to slowly manoeuvre on the other side of the board with b3, Nc3... but all of these moves seem to ignore White's lead in development. I can see that moving my pawn to b3 will eventually allow my light-squared bishop to be placed on d3. But I believe that is too slow.



      Why is a kingside attack not justified here?







      analysis






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 4 hours ago









      Brian Towers

      16.2k33070




      16.2k33070










      asked 12 hours ago









      Maths64Maths64

      406111




      406111






















          3 Answers
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          8














          There is no king on the kingside yet to attack. Black might very well castle long in which case your attack is aimed at nothing and might potentially weaken your own king's safety.



          5....c4 is premature and unnecessary. It loses the pressure on the d4 pawn and loses a tempo for development.



          A very typical reply to such pawn structure is b3, which is based on the fact that black cannot stabilize the pawn on c4 as after 7. b3 b5 8. a4, a6 is not an option because of the potentially hanging rook on the a file (after axb5 axb5).



          The situation would be different if black had for instance already played Bb7 which would defend the rook.



          So all in all, b3 is a natural plan, which will in the short term weaken black's pawn structure and give white an advantage.



          The other option, kingside attack, with f5 eventually is not bad per se, but you should probably wait until black has castled short. Also it takes a lot of moves to get any kind of attack going.






          share|improve this answer































            3















            Why is a kingside attack not justified here?




            Because the center is closed.



            You need to start by undermining black's center pawn chain. That means either the e6 pawn, the c4 pawn or both. The computer's suggestion of b3 undermines c4 immediately and makes a lot of sense. Undermining e6 will take a lot of moves by which time will likely be much better developed and prepared.



            Because Black is much less well developed and his king is still in the middle while your king is safely castled kingside your best plan is to open the center first. It will be very hard for black to survive.






            share|improve this answer





















            • 2





              I am a bit confused by your answer. Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack? Converesely a kingside attack is often countered by opening up the center.

              – user1583209
              11 hours ago











            • @user1583209 "Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack?" No. You want to control the center which neither side does. Furthermore Black's king is not committed to the kingside.

              – Brian Towers
              10 hours ago






            • 2





              Ok, let's call it "control" the center. In any case I don't follow your logic: "closed center" -> "kingside attack is not justified". There are plenty of examples (e.g. KID) where you do a kingside attack from a closed center, don't you?

              – user1583209
              8 hours ago



















            1














            I believe white has to strike now on c4 pawn otherwise black can consolidate the position of that pawn. As it stands with b3, b5, a4 black cannot maintain his structure with a6.



            I'm not sure why you would consider g3 or Nh4, it has no squares to go to. g3 weakens your position for pretty much no reason. Even with a bunch of free tempos it accomplishes nothing. Like if your knight was on h4, pawn on g3 and pawn on f4 in this position, you still can't push f5 and if bg4 it can easily be stopped with nf5 or g6. You would need to play g4, which does nothing against ng6.



            If I truly want to attack the king side, I would be looking for moves like Ng5 and f4.






            share|improve this answer
























            • Sorry, I explained my kingside plan quite vaguely. I was thinking of playing g3 so my knight can later go to g2 (jumping first to h4) where it can support the advance f4.

              – Maths64
              7 hours ago











            • So you can play Nf4 or f4? Because Ng2 has absolutely nothing to do with f4, and Nf4 doesn't do anything either. Your plan just makes no sense whatsoever, even if you wanted to attack the king side.

              – Matthew Liu
              6 hours ago













            • You are right. I was just playing what I did In some similar positions, in which a knight on g2 does suport f4 but in this game there is no opponent piece controling f4.

              – Maths64
              6 hours ago











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            3 Answers
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            8














            There is no king on the kingside yet to attack. Black might very well castle long in which case your attack is aimed at nothing and might potentially weaken your own king's safety.



            5....c4 is premature and unnecessary. It loses the pressure on the d4 pawn and loses a tempo for development.



            A very typical reply to such pawn structure is b3, which is based on the fact that black cannot stabilize the pawn on c4 as after 7. b3 b5 8. a4, a6 is not an option because of the potentially hanging rook on the a file (after axb5 axb5).



            The situation would be different if black had for instance already played Bb7 which would defend the rook.



            So all in all, b3 is a natural plan, which will in the short term weaken black's pawn structure and give white an advantage.



            The other option, kingside attack, with f5 eventually is not bad per se, but you should probably wait until black has castled short. Also it takes a lot of moves to get any kind of attack going.






            share|improve this answer




























              8














              There is no king on the kingside yet to attack. Black might very well castle long in which case your attack is aimed at nothing and might potentially weaken your own king's safety.



              5....c4 is premature and unnecessary. It loses the pressure on the d4 pawn and loses a tempo for development.



              A very typical reply to such pawn structure is b3, which is based on the fact that black cannot stabilize the pawn on c4 as after 7. b3 b5 8. a4, a6 is not an option because of the potentially hanging rook on the a file (after axb5 axb5).



              The situation would be different if black had for instance already played Bb7 which would defend the rook.



              So all in all, b3 is a natural plan, which will in the short term weaken black's pawn structure and give white an advantage.



              The other option, kingside attack, with f5 eventually is not bad per se, but you should probably wait until black has castled short. Also it takes a lot of moves to get any kind of attack going.






              share|improve this answer


























                8












                8








                8







                There is no king on the kingside yet to attack. Black might very well castle long in which case your attack is aimed at nothing and might potentially weaken your own king's safety.



                5....c4 is premature and unnecessary. It loses the pressure on the d4 pawn and loses a tempo for development.



                A very typical reply to such pawn structure is b3, which is based on the fact that black cannot stabilize the pawn on c4 as after 7. b3 b5 8. a4, a6 is not an option because of the potentially hanging rook on the a file (after axb5 axb5).



                The situation would be different if black had for instance already played Bb7 which would defend the rook.



                So all in all, b3 is a natural plan, which will in the short term weaken black's pawn structure and give white an advantage.



                The other option, kingside attack, with f5 eventually is not bad per se, but you should probably wait until black has castled short. Also it takes a lot of moves to get any kind of attack going.






                share|improve this answer













                There is no king on the kingside yet to attack. Black might very well castle long in which case your attack is aimed at nothing and might potentially weaken your own king's safety.



                5....c4 is premature and unnecessary. It loses the pressure on the d4 pawn and loses a tempo for development.



                A very typical reply to such pawn structure is b3, which is based on the fact that black cannot stabilize the pawn on c4 as after 7. b3 b5 8. a4, a6 is not an option because of the potentially hanging rook on the a file (after axb5 axb5).



                The situation would be different if black had for instance already played Bb7 which would defend the rook.



                So all in all, b3 is a natural plan, which will in the short term weaken black's pawn structure and give white an advantage.



                The other option, kingside attack, with f5 eventually is not bad per se, but you should probably wait until black has castled short. Also it takes a lot of moves to get any kind of attack going.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 11 hours ago









                user1583209user1583209

                12.5k21756




                12.5k21756























                    3















                    Why is a kingside attack not justified here?




                    Because the center is closed.



                    You need to start by undermining black's center pawn chain. That means either the e6 pawn, the c4 pawn or both. The computer's suggestion of b3 undermines c4 immediately and makes a lot of sense. Undermining e6 will take a lot of moves by which time will likely be much better developed and prepared.



                    Because Black is much less well developed and his king is still in the middle while your king is safely castled kingside your best plan is to open the center first. It will be very hard for black to survive.






                    share|improve this answer





















                    • 2





                      I am a bit confused by your answer. Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack? Converesely a kingside attack is often countered by opening up the center.

                      – user1583209
                      11 hours ago











                    • @user1583209 "Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack?" No. You want to control the center which neither side does. Furthermore Black's king is not committed to the kingside.

                      – Brian Towers
                      10 hours ago






                    • 2





                      Ok, let's call it "control" the center. In any case I don't follow your logic: "closed center" -> "kingside attack is not justified". There are plenty of examples (e.g. KID) where you do a kingside attack from a closed center, don't you?

                      – user1583209
                      8 hours ago
















                    3















                    Why is a kingside attack not justified here?




                    Because the center is closed.



                    You need to start by undermining black's center pawn chain. That means either the e6 pawn, the c4 pawn or both. The computer's suggestion of b3 undermines c4 immediately and makes a lot of sense. Undermining e6 will take a lot of moves by which time will likely be much better developed and prepared.



                    Because Black is much less well developed and his king is still in the middle while your king is safely castled kingside your best plan is to open the center first. It will be very hard for black to survive.






                    share|improve this answer





















                    • 2





                      I am a bit confused by your answer. Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack? Converesely a kingside attack is often countered by opening up the center.

                      – user1583209
                      11 hours ago











                    • @user1583209 "Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack?" No. You want to control the center which neither side does. Furthermore Black's king is not committed to the kingside.

                      – Brian Towers
                      10 hours ago






                    • 2





                      Ok, let's call it "control" the center. In any case I don't follow your logic: "closed center" -> "kingside attack is not justified". There are plenty of examples (e.g. KID) where you do a kingside attack from a closed center, don't you?

                      – user1583209
                      8 hours ago














                    3












                    3








                    3








                    Why is a kingside attack not justified here?




                    Because the center is closed.



                    You need to start by undermining black's center pawn chain. That means either the e6 pawn, the c4 pawn or both. The computer's suggestion of b3 undermines c4 immediately and makes a lot of sense. Undermining e6 will take a lot of moves by which time will likely be much better developed and prepared.



                    Because Black is much less well developed and his king is still in the middle while your king is safely castled kingside your best plan is to open the center first. It will be very hard for black to survive.






                    share|improve this answer
















                    Why is a kingside attack not justified here?




                    Because the center is closed.



                    You need to start by undermining black's center pawn chain. That means either the e6 pawn, the c4 pawn or both. The computer's suggestion of b3 undermines c4 immediately and makes a lot of sense. Undermining e6 will take a lot of moves by which time will likely be much better developed and prepared.



                    Because Black is much less well developed and his king is still in the middle while your king is safely castled kingside your best plan is to open the center first. It will be very hard for black to survive.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 10 hours ago

























                    answered 12 hours ago









                    Brian TowersBrian Towers

                    16.2k33070




                    16.2k33070








                    • 2





                      I am a bit confused by your answer. Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack? Converesely a kingside attack is often countered by opening up the center.

                      – user1583209
                      11 hours ago











                    • @user1583209 "Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack?" No. You want to control the center which neither side does. Furthermore Black's king is not committed to the kingside.

                      – Brian Towers
                      10 hours ago






                    • 2





                      Ok, let's call it "control" the center. In any case I don't follow your logic: "closed center" -> "kingside attack is not justified". There are plenty of examples (e.g. KID) where you do a kingside attack from a closed center, don't you?

                      – user1583209
                      8 hours ago














                    • 2





                      I am a bit confused by your answer. Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack? Converesely a kingside attack is often countered by opening up the center.

                      – user1583209
                      11 hours ago











                    • @user1583209 "Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack?" No. You want to control the center which neither side does. Furthermore Black's king is not committed to the kingside.

                      – Brian Towers
                      10 hours ago






                    • 2





                      Ok, let's call it "control" the center. In any case I don't follow your logic: "closed center" -> "kingside attack is not justified". There are plenty of examples (e.g. KID) where you do a kingside attack from a closed center, don't you?

                      – user1583209
                      8 hours ago








                    2




                    2





                    I am a bit confused by your answer. Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack? Converesely a kingside attack is often countered by opening up the center.

                    – user1583209
                    11 hours ago





                    I am a bit confused by your answer. Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack? Converesely a kingside attack is often countered by opening up the center.

                    – user1583209
                    11 hours ago













                    @user1583209 "Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack?" No. You want to control the center which neither side does. Furthermore Black's king is not committed to the kingside.

                    – Brian Towers
                    10 hours ago





                    @user1583209 "Isn't a closed center what you usually (exceptions occur of course) want when doing a pawn-storm/kingside attack?" No. You want to control the center which neither side does. Furthermore Black's king is not committed to the kingside.

                    – Brian Towers
                    10 hours ago




                    2




                    2





                    Ok, let's call it "control" the center. In any case I don't follow your logic: "closed center" -> "kingside attack is not justified". There are plenty of examples (e.g. KID) where you do a kingside attack from a closed center, don't you?

                    – user1583209
                    8 hours ago





                    Ok, let's call it "control" the center. In any case I don't follow your logic: "closed center" -> "kingside attack is not justified". There are plenty of examples (e.g. KID) where you do a kingside attack from a closed center, don't you?

                    – user1583209
                    8 hours ago











                    1














                    I believe white has to strike now on c4 pawn otherwise black can consolidate the position of that pawn. As it stands with b3, b5, a4 black cannot maintain his structure with a6.



                    I'm not sure why you would consider g3 or Nh4, it has no squares to go to. g3 weakens your position for pretty much no reason. Even with a bunch of free tempos it accomplishes nothing. Like if your knight was on h4, pawn on g3 and pawn on f4 in this position, you still can't push f5 and if bg4 it can easily be stopped with nf5 or g6. You would need to play g4, which does nothing against ng6.



                    If I truly want to attack the king side, I would be looking for moves like Ng5 and f4.






                    share|improve this answer
























                    • Sorry, I explained my kingside plan quite vaguely. I was thinking of playing g3 so my knight can later go to g2 (jumping first to h4) where it can support the advance f4.

                      – Maths64
                      7 hours ago











                    • So you can play Nf4 or f4? Because Ng2 has absolutely nothing to do with f4, and Nf4 doesn't do anything either. Your plan just makes no sense whatsoever, even if you wanted to attack the king side.

                      – Matthew Liu
                      6 hours ago













                    • You are right. I was just playing what I did In some similar positions, in which a knight on g2 does suport f4 but in this game there is no opponent piece controling f4.

                      – Maths64
                      6 hours ago
















                    1














                    I believe white has to strike now on c4 pawn otherwise black can consolidate the position of that pawn. As it stands with b3, b5, a4 black cannot maintain his structure with a6.



                    I'm not sure why you would consider g3 or Nh4, it has no squares to go to. g3 weakens your position for pretty much no reason. Even with a bunch of free tempos it accomplishes nothing. Like if your knight was on h4, pawn on g3 and pawn on f4 in this position, you still can't push f5 and if bg4 it can easily be stopped with nf5 or g6. You would need to play g4, which does nothing against ng6.



                    If I truly want to attack the king side, I would be looking for moves like Ng5 and f4.






                    share|improve this answer
























                    • Sorry, I explained my kingside plan quite vaguely. I was thinking of playing g3 so my knight can later go to g2 (jumping first to h4) where it can support the advance f4.

                      – Maths64
                      7 hours ago











                    • So you can play Nf4 or f4? Because Ng2 has absolutely nothing to do with f4, and Nf4 doesn't do anything either. Your plan just makes no sense whatsoever, even if you wanted to attack the king side.

                      – Matthew Liu
                      6 hours ago













                    • You are right. I was just playing what I did In some similar positions, in which a knight on g2 does suport f4 but in this game there is no opponent piece controling f4.

                      – Maths64
                      6 hours ago














                    1












                    1








                    1







                    I believe white has to strike now on c4 pawn otherwise black can consolidate the position of that pawn. As it stands with b3, b5, a4 black cannot maintain his structure with a6.



                    I'm not sure why you would consider g3 or Nh4, it has no squares to go to. g3 weakens your position for pretty much no reason. Even with a bunch of free tempos it accomplishes nothing. Like if your knight was on h4, pawn on g3 and pawn on f4 in this position, you still can't push f5 and if bg4 it can easily be stopped with nf5 or g6. You would need to play g4, which does nothing against ng6.



                    If I truly want to attack the king side, I would be looking for moves like Ng5 and f4.






                    share|improve this answer













                    I believe white has to strike now on c4 pawn otherwise black can consolidate the position of that pawn. As it stands with b3, b5, a4 black cannot maintain his structure with a6.



                    I'm not sure why you would consider g3 or Nh4, it has no squares to go to. g3 weakens your position for pretty much no reason. Even with a bunch of free tempos it accomplishes nothing. Like if your knight was on h4, pawn on g3 and pawn on f4 in this position, you still can't push f5 and if bg4 it can easily be stopped with nf5 or g6. You would need to play g4, which does nothing against ng6.



                    If I truly want to attack the king side, I would be looking for moves like Ng5 and f4.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 10 hours ago









                    Matthew LiuMatthew Liu

                    849157




                    849157













                    • Sorry, I explained my kingside plan quite vaguely. I was thinking of playing g3 so my knight can later go to g2 (jumping first to h4) where it can support the advance f4.

                      – Maths64
                      7 hours ago











                    • So you can play Nf4 or f4? Because Ng2 has absolutely nothing to do with f4, and Nf4 doesn't do anything either. Your plan just makes no sense whatsoever, even if you wanted to attack the king side.

                      – Matthew Liu
                      6 hours ago













                    • You are right. I was just playing what I did In some similar positions, in which a knight on g2 does suport f4 but in this game there is no opponent piece controling f4.

                      – Maths64
                      6 hours ago



















                    • Sorry, I explained my kingside plan quite vaguely. I was thinking of playing g3 so my knight can later go to g2 (jumping first to h4) where it can support the advance f4.

                      – Maths64
                      7 hours ago











                    • So you can play Nf4 or f4? Because Ng2 has absolutely nothing to do with f4, and Nf4 doesn't do anything either. Your plan just makes no sense whatsoever, even if you wanted to attack the king side.

                      – Matthew Liu
                      6 hours ago













                    • You are right. I was just playing what I did In some similar positions, in which a knight on g2 does suport f4 but in this game there is no opponent piece controling f4.

                      – Maths64
                      6 hours ago

















                    Sorry, I explained my kingside plan quite vaguely. I was thinking of playing g3 so my knight can later go to g2 (jumping first to h4) where it can support the advance f4.

                    – Maths64
                    7 hours ago





                    Sorry, I explained my kingside plan quite vaguely. I was thinking of playing g3 so my knight can later go to g2 (jumping first to h4) where it can support the advance f4.

                    – Maths64
                    7 hours ago













                    So you can play Nf4 or f4? Because Ng2 has absolutely nothing to do with f4, and Nf4 doesn't do anything either. Your plan just makes no sense whatsoever, even if you wanted to attack the king side.

                    – Matthew Liu
                    6 hours ago







                    So you can play Nf4 or f4? Because Ng2 has absolutely nothing to do with f4, and Nf4 doesn't do anything either. Your plan just makes no sense whatsoever, even if you wanted to attack the king side.

                    – Matthew Liu
                    6 hours ago















                    You are right. I was just playing what I did In some similar positions, in which a knight on g2 does suport f4 but in this game there is no opponent piece controling f4.

                    – Maths64
                    6 hours ago





                    You are right. I was just playing what I did In some similar positions, in which a knight on g2 does suport f4 but in this game there is no opponent piece controling f4.

                    – Maths64
                    6 hours ago


















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