What's the point of interval inversion?












4















The rules for inverting intervals are well documented (for example on Wikipedia), but I'm having a hard time figuring out why this operation is of interest:



How does interval inversion help us in understanding or creating music?










share|improve this question





























    4















    The rules for inverting intervals are well documented (for example on Wikipedia), but I'm having a hard time figuring out why this operation is of interest:



    How does interval inversion help us in understanding or creating music?










    share|improve this question



























      4












      4








      4








      The rules for inverting intervals are well documented (for example on Wikipedia), but I'm having a hard time figuring out why this operation is of interest:



      How does interval inversion help us in understanding or creating music?










      share|improve this question
















      The rules for inverting intervals are well documented (for example on Wikipedia), but I'm having a hard time figuring out why this operation is of interest:



      How does interval inversion help us in understanding or creating music?







      theory intervals






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 7 hours ago









      Richard

      44k7103188




      44k7103188










      asked 10 hours ago









      Florian BruckerFlorian Brucker

      5071517




      5071517






















          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          5














          In addition to Dom's great answer, there's a very famous compositional technique known as invertible counterpoint. In short, invertible counterpoint switches the register of two (or more) independent voices such that the voice that was on top is now on the bottom and the voice that was on bottom is now on top.



          Now let's remember that, from a standpoint of strict counterpoint, a perfect fifth is consonant and a perfect fourth is dissonant. As such we need to have an awareness of how intervals invert so that if we write a counterpoint that will eventually be inverted, we make sure to treat particular intervals carefully so that their inverted versions also follow all rules of consonance and dissonance.






          share|improve this answer































            3














            The simple explanation is that inverse intervals are another way to view the distance starting at a different point You can go up to a note or down to a note which gives different interval sizes, but they are related. Where you see this concept most is looking at vertical harmony especially chords.



            To keep it simple, we'll just look at the notes C and G. When you are talking about intervals the default is to assume upward and C up to G would be a perfect 5th. However when looking at C down to G, the interval would only be a perfect 4th. The distance is different because we are taking a different path. This is also why G up to C would be a perfect 4th and G down to C would be a perfect 5th.



            Again if you looked at a harmonic structure containing C G and C like below, you would have both intervals and on the staff you could see the difference in staff space between the inverse intervals.



            X:1
            L:1/1
            M:
            K:C
            V:1 clef=treble
            [C G] | [G c] | [C G c]
            %





            share|improve this answer

































              3














              @Dom and @Richard gave great answers. In fact you can sort of combine them and look into imitative counterpoint and fugue where the "entries" of imitative counterpoint can occur at the fifth above and the fourth below. The musical importance of the voices entering at those points of inversion above and below is it keeps clear what key the music is in by highlighting the tonic/dominant relationship.



              I can add another musical aspect of inversion. Some inversions procedures can sort of "flip" musical qualities.



              A C major chord is a major third (M3) and a minor third (m3) above a root C M3↑ E m3↑ G.



              enter image description here



              We can invert that. But first we need a point from which to invert - this is an important aspect of inverting, inversion can happen from different points.



              Inverting the C major chord from the C root we will invert/reverse the added intervals - add a M3 below and then a m3 below the root C M3↓ Ab m3↓ F



              enter image description here




              • A major chord inverts to a minor chord!


              If we start on G the inversion give us a Cm chord...



              enter image description here



              A similar thing happens if you invert the whole and half step direction of a major scale starting on G. It will produce the minor scale...



              enter image description here



              Some chord are symmetrical when inverted. Ex. if you invert a diminished seventh chord at the root, you get the same chord, enharmonically respelled...



              enter image description here



              Other chords change quality when inverted, like a dominant-seventh chord from a major key inverted at the tonic becomes a half-diminished seventh chord from the parallel minor key...



              enter image description here




              ...help us in understanding or creating music?




              I'm not sure if awareness of these inversions helps much. Apparently they figure large in Riemannian theory. Personally I don't buy into the idea that the minor scale is derived from a major scale inverted at the fifth. I don't think that fits into any acoustical phenomena nor what I understand of ancient music theory & history. But these inversion can be observed - if not necessarily heard - and they come up in music theory discussions from time to time.






              share|improve this answer

































                0














                Ascending melodies sound different to descending ones. The inversions of chords (achieved through changing the intervals) sound different. It's not surprising that the inversion of intervals gets attention: music is all about sound.





                share
























                  Your Answer








                  StackExchange.ready(function() {
                  var channelOptions = {
                  tags: "".split(" "),
                  id: "240"
                  };
                  initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

                  StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
                  // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
                  if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
                  StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
                  createEditor();
                  });
                  }
                  else {
                  createEditor();
                  }
                  });

                  function createEditor() {
                  StackExchange.prepareEditor({
                  heartbeatType: 'answer',
                  autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
                  convertImagesToLinks: false,
                  noModals: true,
                  showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
                  reputationToPostImages: null,
                  bindNavPrevention: true,
                  postfix: "",
                  imageUploader: {
                  brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
                  contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
                  allowUrls: true
                  },
                  noCode: true, onDemand: true,
                  discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
                  ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
                  });


                  }
                  });














                  draft saved

                  draft discarded


















                  StackExchange.ready(
                  function () {
                  StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f82078%2fwhats-the-point-of-interval-inversion%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                  }
                  );

                  Post as a guest















                  Required, but never shown

























                  4 Answers
                  4






                  active

                  oldest

                  votes








                  4 Answers
                  4






                  active

                  oldest

                  votes









                  active

                  oldest

                  votes






                  active

                  oldest

                  votes









                  5














                  In addition to Dom's great answer, there's a very famous compositional technique known as invertible counterpoint. In short, invertible counterpoint switches the register of two (or more) independent voices such that the voice that was on top is now on the bottom and the voice that was on bottom is now on top.



                  Now let's remember that, from a standpoint of strict counterpoint, a perfect fifth is consonant and a perfect fourth is dissonant. As such we need to have an awareness of how intervals invert so that if we write a counterpoint that will eventually be inverted, we make sure to treat particular intervals carefully so that their inverted versions also follow all rules of consonance and dissonance.






                  share|improve this answer




























                    5














                    In addition to Dom's great answer, there's a very famous compositional technique known as invertible counterpoint. In short, invertible counterpoint switches the register of two (or more) independent voices such that the voice that was on top is now on the bottom and the voice that was on bottom is now on top.



                    Now let's remember that, from a standpoint of strict counterpoint, a perfect fifth is consonant and a perfect fourth is dissonant. As such we need to have an awareness of how intervals invert so that if we write a counterpoint that will eventually be inverted, we make sure to treat particular intervals carefully so that their inverted versions also follow all rules of consonance and dissonance.






                    share|improve this answer


























                      5












                      5








                      5







                      In addition to Dom's great answer, there's a very famous compositional technique known as invertible counterpoint. In short, invertible counterpoint switches the register of two (or more) independent voices such that the voice that was on top is now on the bottom and the voice that was on bottom is now on top.



                      Now let's remember that, from a standpoint of strict counterpoint, a perfect fifth is consonant and a perfect fourth is dissonant. As such we need to have an awareness of how intervals invert so that if we write a counterpoint that will eventually be inverted, we make sure to treat particular intervals carefully so that their inverted versions also follow all rules of consonance and dissonance.






                      share|improve this answer













                      In addition to Dom's great answer, there's a very famous compositional technique known as invertible counterpoint. In short, invertible counterpoint switches the register of two (or more) independent voices such that the voice that was on top is now on the bottom and the voice that was on bottom is now on top.



                      Now let's remember that, from a standpoint of strict counterpoint, a perfect fifth is consonant and a perfect fourth is dissonant. As such we need to have an awareness of how intervals invert so that if we write a counterpoint that will eventually be inverted, we make sure to treat particular intervals carefully so that their inverted versions also follow all rules of consonance and dissonance.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 10 hours ago









                      RichardRichard

                      44k7103188




                      44k7103188























                          3














                          The simple explanation is that inverse intervals are another way to view the distance starting at a different point You can go up to a note or down to a note which gives different interval sizes, but they are related. Where you see this concept most is looking at vertical harmony especially chords.



                          To keep it simple, we'll just look at the notes C and G. When you are talking about intervals the default is to assume upward and C up to G would be a perfect 5th. However when looking at C down to G, the interval would only be a perfect 4th. The distance is different because we are taking a different path. This is also why G up to C would be a perfect 4th and G down to C would be a perfect 5th.



                          Again if you looked at a harmonic structure containing C G and C like below, you would have both intervals and on the staff you could see the difference in staff space between the inverse intervals.



                          X:1
                          L:1/1
                          M:
                          K:C
                          V:1 clef=treble
                          [C G] | [G c] | [C G c]
                          %





                          share|improve this answer






























                            3














                            The simple explanation is that inverse intervals are another way to view the distance starting at a different point You can go up to a note or down to a note which gives different interval sizes, but they are related. Where you see this concept most is looking at vertical harmony especially chords.



                            To keep it simple, we'll just look at the notes C and G. When you are talking about intervals the default is to assume upward and C up to G would be a perfect 5th. However when looking at C down to G, the interval would only be a perfect 4th. The distance is different because we are taking a different path. This is also why G up to C would be a perfect 4th and G down to C would be a perfect 5th.



                            Again if you looked at a harmonic structure containing C G and C like below, you would have both intervals and on the staff you could see the difference in staff space between the inverse intervals.



                            X:1
                            L:1/1
                            M:
                            K:C
                            V:1 clef=treble
                            [C G] | [G c] | [C G c]
                            %





                            share|improve this answer




























                              3












                              3








                              3







                              The simple explanation is that inverse intervals are another way to view the distance starting at a different point You can go up to a note or down to a note which gives different interval sizes, but they are related. Where you see this concept most is looking at vertical harmony especially chords.



                              To keep it simple, we'll just look at the notes C and G. When you are talking about intervals the default is to assume upward and C up to G would be a perfect 5th. However when looking at C down to G, the interval would only be a perfect 4th. The distance is different because we are taking a different path. This is also why G up to C would be a perfect 4th and G down to C would be a perfect 5th.



                              Again if you looked at a harmonic structure containing C G and C like below, you would have both intervals and on the staff you could see the difference in staff space between the inverse intervals.



                              X:1
                              L:1/1
                              M:
                              K:C
                              V:1 clef=treble
                              [C G] | [G c] | [C G c]
                              %





                              share|improve this answer















                              The simple explanation is that inverse intervals are another way to view the distance starting at a different point You can go up to a note or down to a note which gives different interval sizes, but they are related. Where you see this concept most is looking at vertical harmony especially chords.



                              To keep it simple, we'll just look at the notes C and G. When you are talking about intervals the default is to assume upward and C up to G would be a perfect 5th. However when looking at C down to G, the interval would only be a perfect 4th. The distance is different because we are taking a different path. This is also why G up to C would be a perfect 4th and G down to C would be a perfect 5th.



                              Again if you looked at a harmonic structure containing C G and C like below, you would have both intervals and on the staff you could see the difference in staff space between the inverse intervals.



                              X:1
                              L:1/1
                              M:
                              K:C
                              V:1 clef=treble
                              [C G] | [G c] | [C G c]
                              %






                              share|improve this answer














                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer








                              edited 9 hours ago

























                              answered 10 hours ago









                              DomDom

                              36.9k19109225




                              36.9k19109225























                                  3














                                  @Dom and @Richard gave great answers. In fact you can sort of combine them and look into imitative counterpoint and fugue where the "entries" of imitative counterpoint can occur at the fifth above and the fourth below. The musical importance of the voices entering at those points of inversion above and below is it keeps clear what key the music is in by highlighting the tonic/dominant relationship.



                                  I can add another musical aspect of inversion. Some inversions procedures can sort of "flip" musical qualities.



                                  A C major chord is a major third (M3) and a minor third (m3) above a root C M3↑ E m3↑ G.



                                  enter image description here



                                  We can invert that. But first we need a point from which to invert - this is an important aspect of inverting, inversion can happen from different points.



                                  Inverting the C major chord from the C root we will invert/reverse the added intervals - add a M3 below and then a m3 below the root C M3↓ Ab m3↓ F



                                  enter image description here




                                  • A major chord inverts to a minor chord!


                                  If we start on G the inversion give us a Cm chord...



                                  enter image description here



                                  A similar thing happens if you invert the whole and half step direction of a major scale starting on G. It will produce the minor scale...



                                  enter image description here



                                  Some chord are symmetrical when inverted. Ex. if you invert a diminished seventh chord at the root, you get the same chord, enharmonically respelled...



                                  enter image description here



                                  Other chords change quality when inverted, like a dominant-seventh chord from a major key inverted at the tonic becomes a half-diminished seventh chord from the parallel minor key...



                                  enter image description here




                                  ...help us in understanding or creating music?




                                  I'm not sure if awareness of these inversions helps much. Apparently they figure large in Riemannian theory. Personally I don't buy into the idea that the minor scale is derived from a major scale inverted at the fifth. I don't think that fits into any acoustical phenomena nor what I understand of ancient music theory & history. But these inversion can be observed - if not necessarily heard - and they come up in music theory discussions from time to time.






                                  share|improve this answer






























                                    3














                                    @Dom and @Richard gave great answers. In fact you can sort of combine them and look into imitative counterpoint and fugue where the "entries" of imitative counterpoint can occur at the fifth above and the fourth below. The musical importance of the voices entering at those points of inversion above and below is it keeps clear what key the music is in by highlighting the tonic/dominant relationship.



                                    I can add another musical aspect of inversion. Some inversions procedures can sort of "flip" musical qualities.



                                    A C major chord is a major third (M3) and a minor third (m3) above a root C M3↑ E m3↑ G.



                                    enter image description here



                                    We can invert that. But first we need a point from which to invert - this is an important aspect of inverting, inversion can happen from different points.



                                    Inverting the C major chord from the C root we will invert/reverse the added intervals - add a M3 below and then a m3 below the root C M3↓ Ab m3↓ F



                                    enter image description here




                                    • A major chord inverts to a minor chord!


                                    If we start on G the inversion give us a Cm chord...



                                    enter image description here



                                    A similar thing happens if you invert the whole and half step direction of a major scale starting on G. It will produce the minor scale...



                                    enter image description here



                                    Some chord are symmetrical when inverted. Ex. if you invert a diminished seventh chord at the root, you get the same chord, enharmonically respelled...



                                    enter image description here



                                    Other chords change quality when inverted, like a dominant-seventh chord from a major key inverted at the tonic becomes a half-diminished seventh chord from the parallel minor key...



                                    enter image description here




                                    ...help us in understanding or creating music?




                                    I'm not sure if awareness of these inversions helps much. Apparently they figure large in Riemannian theory. Personally I don't buy into the idea that the minor scale is derived from a major scale inverted at the fifth. I don't think that fits into any acoustical phenomena nor what I understand of ancient music theory & history. But these inversion can be observed - if not necessarily heard - and they come up in music theory discussions from time to time.






                                    share|improve this answer




























                                      3












                                      3








                                      3







                                      @Dom and @Richard gave great answers. In fact you can sort of combine them and look into imitative counterpoint and fugue where the "entries" of imitative counterpoint can occur at the fifth above and the fourth below. The musical importance of the voices entering at those points of inversion above and below is it keeps clear what key the music is in by highlighting the tonic/dominant relationship.



                                      I can add another musical aspect of inversion. Some inversions procedures can sort of "flip" musical qualities.



                                      A C major chord is a major third (M3) and a minor third (m3) above a root C M3↑ E m3↑ G.



                                      enter image description here



                                      We can invert that. But first we need a point from which to invert - this is an important aspect of inverting, inversion can happen from different points.



                                      Inverting the C major chord from the C root we will invert/reverse the added intervals - add a M3 below and then a m3 below the root C M3↓ Ab m3↓ F



                                      enter image description here




                                      • A major chord inverts to a minor chord!


                                      If we start on G the inversion give us a Cm chord...



                                      enter image description here



                                      A similar thing happens if you invert the whole and half step direction of a major scale starting on G. It will produce the minor scale...



                                      enter image description here



                                      Some chord are symmetrical when inverted. Ex. if you invert a diminished seventh chord at the root, you get the same chord, enharmonically respelled...



                                      enter image description here



                                      Other chords change quality when inverted, like a dominant-seventh chord from a major key inverted at the tonic becomes a half-diminished seventh chord from the parallel minor key...



                                      enter image description here




                                      ...help us in understanding or creating music?




                                      I'm not sure if awareness of these inversions helps much. Apparently they figure large in Riemannian theory. Personally I don't buy into the idea that the minor scale is derived from a major scale inverted at the fifth. I don't think that fits into any acoustical phenomena nor what I understand of ancient music theory & history. But these inversion can be observed - if not necessarily heard - and they come up in music theory discussions from time to time.






                                      share|improve this answer















                                      @Dom and @Richard gave great answers. In fact you can sort of combine them and look into imitative counterpoint and fugue where the "entries" of imitative counterpoint can occur at the fifth above and the fourth below. The musical importance of the voices entering at those points of inversion above and below is it keeps clear what key the music is in by highlighting the tonic/dominant relationship.



                                      I can add another musical aspect of inversion. Some inversions procedures can sort of "flip" musical qualities.



                                      A C major chord is a major third (M3) and a minor third (m3) above a root C M3↑ E m3↑ G.



                                      enter image description here



                                      We can invert that. But first we need a point from which to invert - this is an important aspect of inverting, inversion can happen from different points.



                                      Inverting the C major chord from the C root we will invert/reverse the added intervals - add a M3 below and then a m3 below the root C M3↓ Ab m3↓ F



                                      enter image description here




                                      • A major chord inverts to a minor chord!


                                      If we start on G the inversion give us a Cm chord...



                                      enter image description here



                                      A similar thing happens if you invert the whole and half step direction of a major scale starting on G. It will produce the minor scale...



                                      enter image description here



                                      Some chord are symmetrical when inverted. Ex. if you invert a diminished seventh chord at the root, you get the same chord, enharmonically respelled...



                                      enter image description here



                                      Other chords change quality when inverted, like a dominant-seventh chord from a major key inverted at the tonic becomes a half-diminished seventh chord from the parallel minor key...



                                      enter image description here




                                      ...help us in understanding or creating music?




                                      I'm not sure if awareness of these inversions helps much. Apparently they figure large in Riemannian theory. Personally I don't buy into the idea that the minor scale is derived from a major scale inverted at the fifth. I don't think that fits into any acoustical phenomena nor what I understand of ancient music theory & history. But these inversion can be observed - if not necessarily heard - and they come up in music theory discussions from time to time.







                                      share|improve this answer














                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer








                                      edited 7 hours ago

























                                      answered 8 hours ago









                                      Michael CurtisMichael Curtis

                                      10.9k640




                                      10.9k640























                                          0














                                          Ascending melodies sound different to descending ones. The inversions of chords (achieved through changing the intervals) sound different. It's not surprising that the inversion of intervals gets attention: music is all about sound.





                                          share




























                                            0














                                            Ascending melodies sound different to descending ones. The inversions of chords (achieved through changing the intervals) sound different. It's not surprising that the inversion of intervals gets attention: music is all about sound.





                                            share


























                                              0












                                              0








                                              0







                                              Ascending melodies sound different to descending ones. The inversions of chords (achieved through changing the intervals) sound different. It's not surprising that the inversion of intervals gets attention: music is all about sound.





                                              share













                                              Ascending melodies sound different to descending ones. The inversions of chords (achieved through changing the intervals) sound different. It's not surprising that the inversion of intervals gets attention: music is all about sound.






                                              share











                                              share


                                              share










                                              answered 3 mins ago









                                              Areel XochaAreel Xocha

                                              1,936311




                                              1,936311






























                                                  draft saved

                                                  draft discarded




















































                                                  Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!


                                                  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                                  But avoid



                                                  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                                  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                                  To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                                  draft saved


                                                  draft discarded














                                                  StackExchange.ready(
                                                  function () {
                                                  StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f82078%2fwhats-the-point-of-interval-inversion%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                                  }
                                                  );

                                                  Post as a guest















                                                  Required, but never shown





















































                                                  Required, but never shown














                                                  Required, but never shown












                                                  Required, but never shown







                                                  Required, but never shown

































                                                  Required, but never shown














                                                  Required, but never shown












                                                  Required, but never shown







                                                  Required, but never shown







                                                  Popular posts from this blog

                                                  How to reconfigure Docker Trusted Registry 2.x.x to use CEPH FS mount instead of NFS and other traditional...

                                                  is 'sed' thread safe

                                                  How to make a Squid Proxy server?