Why can I not book these flights on Air France?
I'm looking to book a multi-city itinerary on Air France, specifically CDG-->KIX (Paris CDG to Kansai International) and KIX-->LHR (Kansai International to London Heathrow).
Air France operates flights for both these pairs, and it seems I would be able to book them separately without any issue (though very expensive, of course). However, I can't book them together (for any amount of money). When I search through ITA Matrix, this combination on Air France does not show up (even though both one-ways show up).
When I search on the Air France website, I get a little bit of hope, since on the first page after the search it indeed lists many flights in both directions. However when I select which flights I want, it gives me a strange error message "There are no flights available. Please modify your travel dates." (even though it just displayed available flights!).
Is there any hope of booking this combination, perhaps through a SkyTeam partner, or does Air France simply disallow this sort of flight combination?
By the way, the combination CDG-->KIX and NRT-->CDG seems to be easily bookable.
air-travel bookings air-france skyteam
edited 2 hours ago
jcaron
11.1k12055
asked 4 hours ago
John PardonJohn Pardon
8892717
add a comment |
I'm looking to book a multi-city itinerary on Air France, specifically CDG-->KIX (Paris CDG to Kansai International) and KIX-->LHR (Kansai International to London Heathrow).
Air France operates flights for both these pairs, and it seems I would be able to book them separately without any issue (though very expensive, of course). However, I can't book them together (for any amount of money). When I search through ITA Matrix, this combination on Air France does not show up (even though both one-ways show up).
When I search on the Air France website, I get a little bit of hope, since on the first page after the search it indeed lists many flights in both directions. However when I select which flights I want, it gives me a strange error message "There are no flights available. Please modify your travel dates." (even though it just displayed available flights!).
Is there any hope of booking this combination, perhaps through a SkyTeam partner, or does Air France simply disallow this sort of flight combination?
By the way, the combination CDG-->KIX and NRT-->CDG seems to be easily bookable.
air-travel bookings air-france skyteam
edited 2 hours ago
jcaron
11.1k12055
asked 4 hours ago
John PardonJohn Pardon
8892717
It is possible that they are not allowed to offer it because of the rights they have or have not negotiated (and are paying for) with those countries. Read up on Freedom of the Air rights.
– Aganju
4 hours ago
Possible duplicate of travel.stackexchange.com/questions/66859/…
– JonathanReez♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm looking to book a multi-city itinerary on Air France, specifically CDG-->KIX (Paris CDG to Kansai International) and KIX-->LHR (Kansai International to London Heathrow).
Air France operates flights for both these pairs, and it seems I would be able to book them separately without any issue (though very expensive, of course). However, I can't book them together (for any amount of money). When I search through ITA Matrix, this combination on Air France does not show up (even though both one-ways show up).
When I search on the Air France website, I get a little bit of hope, since on the first page after the search it indeed lists many flights in both directions. However when I select which flights I want, it gives me a strange error message "There are no flights available. Please modify your travel dates." (even though it just displayed available flights!).
Is there any hope of booking this combination, perhaps through a SkyTeam partner, or does Air France simply disallow this sort of flight combination?
By the way, the combination CDG-->KIX and NRT-->CDG seems to be easily bookable.
air-travel bookings air-france skyteam
edited 2 hours ago
jcaron
11.1k12055
asked 4 hours ago
John PardonJohn Pardon
8892717
I'm looking to book a multi-city itinerary on Air France, specifically CDG-->KIX (Paris CDG to Kansai International) and KIX-->LHR (Kansai International to London Heathrow).
Air France operates flights for both these pairs, and it seems I would be able to book them separately without any issue (though very expensive, of course). However, I can't book them together (for any amount of money). When I search through ITA Matrix, this combination on Air France does not show up (even though both one-ways show up).
When I search on the Air France website, I get a little bit of hope, since on the first page after the search it indeed lists many flights in both directions. However when I select which flights I want, it gives me a strange error message "There are no flights available. Please modify your travel dates." (even though it just displayed available flights!).
Is there any hope of booking this combination, perhaps through a SkyTeam partner, or does Air France simply disallow this sort of flight combination?
By the way, the combination CDG-->KIX and NRT-->CDG seems to be easily bookable.
air-travel bookings air-france skyteam
air-travel bookings air-france skyteam
edited 2 hours ago
jcaron
11.1k12055
asked 4 hours ago
John PardonJohn Pardon
8892717
edited 2 hours ago
jcaron
11.1k12055
asked 4 hours ago
John PardonJohn Pardon
8892717
edited 2 hours ago
jcaron
11.1k12055
edited 2 hours ago
jcaron
11.1k12055
edited 2 hours ago
jcaron
11.1k12055
11.1k12055
asked 4 hours ago
John PardonJohn Pardon
8892717
asked 4 hours ago
John PardonJohn Pardon
8892717
asked 4 hours ago
John PardonJohn Pardon
8892717
8892717
It is possible that they are not allowed to offer it because of the rights they have or have not negotiated (and are paying for) with those countries. Read up on Freedom of the Air rights.
– Aganju
4 hours ago
Possible duplicate of travel.stackexchange.com/questions/66859/…
– JonathanReez♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
It is possible that they are not allowed to offer it because of the rights they have or have not negotiated (and are paying for) with those countries. Read up on Freedom of the Air rights.
– Aganju
4 hours ago
Possible duplicate of travel.stackexchange.com/questions/66859/…
– JonathanReez♦
2 hours ago
It is possible that they are not allowed to offer it because of the rights they have or have not negotiated (and are paying for) with those countries. Read up on Freedom of the Air rights.
– Aganju
4 hours ago
It is possible that they are not allowed to offer it because of the rights they have or have not negotiated (and are paying for) with those countries. Read up on Freedom of the Air rights.
– Aganju
4 hours ago
Possible duplicate of travel.stackexchange.com/questions/66859/…
– JonathanReez♦
2 hours ago
Possible duplicate of travel.stackexchange.com/questions/66859/…
– JonathanReez♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
To be able to book a combination of flights, the airline has to publish a fare which allows this combination. If that didn't happen, then it can be the case like you have noticed, that you could book two flights separately as one-ways, but not together as open-jaw or return. As long as the airline doesn't add a fare for the combination, there is nothing you can do. Theoretically it could be possible to buy those flights together, if a code share partner has published a valid return fare.
answered 4 hours ago
dunnidunni
3,0561319
add a comment |
This excellent answer by @Calchas, while for a different route on AF/KLM, happens to have the answer for your route as well - for whatever reason, they don't allow origin open jaws where the origins are in different countries.
I looked up Air France's fare rules for a first class flight from CDG-KIX, and they include the following (among many other rules). I'm not sure if these rules are easily accessible for the public at large, though.
OPEN JAWS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAWS WHICH CONSISTS OF NO
MORE THAN 2 INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS AND THE OPEN
SEGMENT AT ORIGIN MUST BE IN ONE COUNTRY. THE OPEN
SEGMENT AT DESTINATION HAS NO RESTRICTIONS.
answered 3 hours ago
user3761894user3761894
756512
2
doe this imply that adding a third segment, LHR-CDG, would make the combo something that could be sold? OP could always arrange a year or so "stopover" in LHR before using the 3rd segment.
– Kate Gregory
3 hours ago
Sounds like a good idea, but empirically, based on trying the Air France site, the answer seems to be no. There's separate sets of rules for stopovers, but I'm not really proficient enough in reading them to say for sure why it doesn't work.
– user3761894
2 hours ago
@KateGregory Not sure about AF, but for many airlines, there are restrictions on stopovers. The lowest fares usually don't allow them at all, and there may be additional costs for other discount fares. There may also be restrictions on where the stopover may happen.
– jcaron
2 hours ago
How about booking it so it's not a stopover, just a plane change at LHR? Don't board the plane for the last segment of the trip LHR-CDG.
– Harper
1 hour ago
Note that for all intents and purposes KLM is Air France..
– George M
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
To be able to book a combination of flights, the airline has to publish a fare which allows this combination. If that didn't happen, then it can be the case like you have noticed, that you could book two flights separately as one-ways, but not together as open-jaw or return. As long as the airline doesn't add a fare for the combination, there is nothing you can do. Theoretically it could be possible to buy those flights together, if a code share partner has published a valid return fare.
answered 4 hours ago
dunnidunni
3,0561319
add a comment |
To be able to book a combination of flights, the airline has to publish a fare which allows this combination. If that didn't happen, then it can be the case like you have noticed, that you could book two flights separately as one-ways, but not together as open-jaw or return. As long as the airline doesn't add a fare for the combination, there is nothing you can do. Theoretically it could be possible to buy those flights together, if a code share partner has published a valid return fare.
answered 4 hours ago
dunnidunni
3,0561319
add a comment |
To be able to book a combination of flights, the airline has to publish a fare which allows this combination. If that didn't happen, then it can be the case like you have noticed, that you could book two flights separately as one-ways, but not together as open-jaw or return. As long as the airline doesn't add a fare for the combination, there is nothing you can do. Theoretically it could be possible to buy those flights together, if a code share partner has published a valid return fare.
answered 4 hours ago
dunnidunni
3,0561319
To be able to book a combination of flights, the airline has to publish a fare which allows this combination. If that didn't happen, then it can be the case like you have noticed, that you could book two flights separately as one-ways, but not together as open-jaw or return. As long as the airline doesn't add a fare for the combination, there is nothing you can do. Theoretically it could be possible to buy those flights together, if a code share partner has published a valid return fare.
answered 4 hours ago
dunnidunni
3,0561319
answered 4 hours ago
dunnidunni
3,0561319
answered 4 hours ago
dunnidunni
3,0561319
answered 4 hours ago
dunnidunni
3,0561319
3,0561319
add a comment |
add a comment |
This excellent answer by @Calchas, while for a different route on AF/KLM, happens to have the answer for your route as well - for whatever reason, they don't allow origin open jaws where the origins are in different countries.
I looked up Air France's fare rules for a first class flight from CDG-KIX, and they include the following (among many other rules). I'm not sure if these rules are easily accessible for the public at large, though.
OPEN JAWS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAWS WHICH CONSISTS OF NO
MORE THAN 2 INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS AND THE OPEN
SEGMENT AT ORIGIN MUST BE IN ONE COUNTRY. THE OPEN
SEGMENT AT DESTINATION HAS NO RESTRICTIONS.
answered 3 hours ago
user3761894user3761894
756512
2
doe this imply that adding a third segment, LHR-CDG, would make the combo something that could be sold? OP could always arrange a year or so "stopover" in LHR before using the 3rd segment.
– Kate Gregory
3 hours ago
Sounds like a good idea, but empirically, based on trying the Air France site, the answer seems to be no. There's separate sets of rules for stopovers, but I'm not really proficient enough in reading them to say for sure why it doesn't work.
– user3761894
2 hours ago
@KateGregory Not sure about AF, but for many airlines, there are restrictions on stopovers. The lowest fares usually don't allow them at all, and there may be additional costs for other discount fares. There may also be restrictions on where the stopover may happen.
– jcaron
2 hours ago
How about booking it so it's not a stopover, just a plane change at LHR? Don't board the plane for the last segment of the trip LHR-CDG.
– Harper
1 hour ago
Note that for all intents and purposes KLM is Air France..
– George M
1 hour ago
add a comment |
This excellent answer by @Calchas, while for a different route on AF/KLM, happens to have the answer for your route as well - for whatever reason, they don't allow origin open jaws where the origins are in different countries.
I looked up Air France's fare rules for a first class flight from CDG-KIX, and they include the following (among many other rules). I'm not sure if these rules are easily accessible for the public at large, though.
OPEN JAWS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAWS WHICH CONSISTS OF NO
MORE THAN 2 INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS AND THE OPEN
SEGMENT AT ORIGIN MUST BE IN ONE COUNTRY. THE OPEN
SEGMENT AT DESTINATION HAS NO RESTRICTIONS.
answered 3 hours ago
user3761894user3761894
756512
2
doe this imply that adding a third segment, LHR-CDG, would make the combo something that could be sold? OP could always arrange a year or so "stopover" in LHR before using the 3rd segment.
– Kate Gregory
3 hours ago
Sounds like a good idea, but empirically, based on trying the Air France site, the answer seems to be no. There's separate sets of rules for stopovers, but I'm not really proficient enough in reading them to say for sure why it doesn't work.
– user3761894
2 hours ago
@KateGregory Not sure about AF, but for many airlines, there are restrictions on stopovers. The lowest fares usually don't allow them at all, and there may be additional costs for other discount fares. There may also be restrictions on where the stopover may happen.
– jcaron
2 hours ago
How about booking it so it's not a stopover, just a plane change at LHR? Don't board the plane for the last segment of the trip LHR-CDG.
– Harper
1 hour ago
Note that for all intents and purposes KLM is Air France..
– George M
1 hour ago
add a comment |
This excellent answer by @Calchas, while for a different route on AF/KLM, happens to have the answer for your route as well - for whatever reason, they don't allow origin open jaws where the origins are in different countries.
I looked up Air France's fare rules for a first class flight from CDG-KIX, and they include the following (among many other rules). I'm not sure if these rules are easily accessible for the public at large, though.
OPEN JAWS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAWS WHICH CONSISTS OF NO
MORE THAN 2 INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS AND THE OPEN
SEGMENT AT ORIGIN MUST BE IN ONE COUNTRY. THE OPEN
SEGMENT AT DESTINATION HAS NO RESTRICTIONS.
answered 3 hours ago
user3761894user3761894
756512
This excellent answer by @Calchas, while for a different route on AF/KLM, happens to have the answer for your route as well - for whatever reason, they don't allow origin open jaws where the origins are in different countries.
I looked up Air France's fare rules for a first class flight from CDG-KIX, and they include the following (among many other rules). I'm not sure if these rules are easily accessible for the public at large, though.
OPEN JAWS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OR DOUBLE OPEN JAWS WHICH CONSISTS OF NO
MORE THAN 2 INTERNATIONAL FARE COMPONENTS AND THE OPEN
SEGMENT AT ORIGIN MUST BE IN ONE COUNTRY. THE OPEN
SEGMENT AT DESTINATION HAS NO RESTRICTIONS.
answered 3 hours ago
user3761894user3761894
756512
answered 3 hours ago
user3761894user3761894
756512
answered 3 hours ago
user3761894user3761894
756512
answered 3 hours ago
user3761894user3761894
756512
756512
2
doe this imply that adding a third segment, LHR-CDG, would make the combo something that could be sold? OP could always arrange a year or so "stopover" in LHR before using the 3rd segment.
– Kate Gregory
3 hours ago
Sounds like a good idea, but empirically, based on trying the Air France site, the answer seems to be no. There's separate sets of rules for stopovers, but I'm not really proficient enough in reading them to say for sure why it doesn't work.
– user3761894
2 hours ago
@KateGregory Not sure about AF, but for many airlines, there are restrictions on stopovers. The lowest fares usually don't allow them at all, and there may be additional costs for other discount fares. There may also be restrictions on where the stopover may happen.
– jcaron
2 hours ago
How about booking it so it's not a stopover, just a plane change at LHR? Don't board the plane for the last segment of the trip LHR-CDG.
– Harper
1 hour ago
Note that for all intents and purposes KLM is Air France..
– George M
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2
doe this imply that adding a third segment, LHR-CDG, would make the combo something that could be sold? OP could always arrange a year or so "stopover" in LHR before using the 3rd segment.
– Kate Gregory
3 hours ago
Sounds like a good idea, but empirically, based on trying the Air France site, the answer seems to be no. There's separate sets of rules for stopovers, but I'm not really proficient enough in reading them to say for sure why it doesn't work.
– user3761894
2 hours ago
@KateGregory Not sure about AF, but for many airlines, there are restrictions on stopovers. The lowest fares usually don't allow them at all, and there may be additional costs for other discount fares. There may also be restrictions on where the stopover may happen.
– jcaron
2 hours ago
How about booking it so it's not a stopover, just a plane change at LHR? Don't board the plane for the last segment of the trip LHR-CDG.
– Harper
1 hour ago
Note that for all intents and purposes KLM is Air France..
– George M
1 hour ago
2
2
doe this imply that adding a third segment, LHR-CDG, would make the combo something that could be sold? OP could always arrange a year or so "stopover" in LHR before using the 3rd segment.
– Kate Gregory
3 hours ago
doe this imply that adding a third segment, LHR-CDG, would make the combo something that could be sold? OP could always arrange a year or so "stopover" in LHR before using the 3rd segment.
– Kate Gregory
3 hours ago
Sounds like a good idea, but empirically, based on trying the Air France site, the answer seems to be no. There's separate sets of rules for stopovers, but I'm not really proficient enough in reading them to say for sure why it doesn't work.
– user3761894
2 hours ago
Sounds like a good idea, but empirically, based on trying the Air France site, the answer seems to be no. There's separate sets of rules for stopovers, but I'm not really proficient enough in reading them to say for sure why it doesn't work.
– user3761894
2 hours ago
@KateGregory Not sure about AF, but for many airlines, there are restrictions on stopovers. The lowest fares usually don't allow them at all, and there may be additional costs for other discount fares. There may also be restrictions on where the stopover may happen.
– jcaron
2 hours ago
@KateGregory Not sure about AF, but for many airlines, there are restrictions on stopovers. The lowest fares usually don't allow them at all, and there may be additional costs for other discount fares. There may also be restrictions on where the stopover may happen.
– jcaron
2 hours ago
How about booking it so it's not a stopover, just a plane change at LHR? Don't board the plane for the last segment of the trip LHR-CDG.
– Harper
1 hour ago
How about booking it so it's not a stopover, just a plane change at LHR? Don't board the plane for the last segment of the trip LHR-CDG.
– Harper
1 hour ago
Note that for all intents and purposes KLM is Air France..
– George M
1 hour ago
Note that for all intents and purposes KLM is Air France..
– George M
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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It is possible that they are not allowed to offer it because of the rights they have or have not negotiated (and are paying for) with those countries. Read up on Freedom of the Air rights.
– Aganju
4 hours ago
Possible duplicate of travel.stackexchange.com/questions/66859/…
– JonathanReez♦
2 hours ago