Can someone explain European graduate programs in STEM fields?












5















I'm a US undergraduate in math and physics and I'm looking to ultimately do a PhD in either physics or math. It seems that a lot of the research I connect with the most is happening in Europe. I also like the focus on research rather than coursework in European PhD programs. However, I've found most of the process confusing for an outsider like me.



I would like to know the in's and out's of how the graduate programs work over there. There's different lingo there, for example: Taught vs Research MSc. Which is better ultimately for a PhD program? I also get the feeling that Masters and PhD in Europe mean something totally different than what we mean in the US. Are there funded Master's programs in Europe (in math/physics) as there are in the US? How does funding compare?



For reference, I've been looking at schools in UK, Germany, and Switzerland(Although not so much Switzerland due to the high cost of living).



Thanks!










share|improve this question























  • This is incredibly broad. A proper answer might take a book. Consider revising to lower the scope?

    – chessofnerd
    4 hours ago
















5















I'm a US undergraduate in math and physics and I'm looking to ultimately do a PhD in either physics or math. It seems that a lot of the research I connect with the most is happening in Europe. I also like the focus on research rather than coursework in European PhD programs. However, I've found most of the process confusing for an outsider like me.



I would like to know the in's and out's of how the graduate programs work over there. There's different lingo there, for example: Taught vs Research MSc. Which is better ultimately for a PhD program? I also get the feeling that Masters and PhD in Europe mean something totally different than what we mean in the US. Are there funded Master's programs in Europe (in math/physics) as there are in the US? How does funding compare?



For reference, I've been looking at schools in UK, Germany, and Switzerland(Although not so much Switzerland due to the high cost of living).



Thanks!










share|improve this question























  • This is incredibly broad. A proper answer might take a book. Consider revising to lower the scope?

    – chessofnerd
    4 hours ago














5












5








5


2






I'm a US undergraduate in math and physics and I'm looking to ultimately do a PhD in either physics or math. It seems that a lot of the research I connect with the most is happening in Europe. I also like the focus on research rather than coursework in European PhD programs. However, I've found most of the process confusing for an outsider like me.



I would like to know the in's and out's of how the graduate programs work over there. There's different lingo there, for example: Taught vs Research MSc. Which is better ultimately for a PhD program? I also get the feeling that Masters and PhD in Europe mean something totally different than what we mean in the US. Are there funded Master's programs in Europe (in math/physics) as there are in the US? How does funding compare?



For reference, I've been looking at schools in UK, Germany, and Switzerland(Although not so much Switzerland due to the high cost of living).



Thanks!










share|improve this question














I'm a US undergraduate in math and physics and I'm looking to ultimately do a PhD in either physics or math. It seems that a lot of the research I connect with the most is happening in Europe. I also like the focus on research rather than coursework in European PhD programs. However, I've found most of the process confusing for an outsider like me.



I would like to know the in's and out's of how the graduate programs work over there. There's different lingo there, for example: Taught vs Research MSc. Which is better ultimately for a PhD program? I also get the feeling that Masters and PhD in Europe mean something totally different than what we mean in the US. Are there funded Master's programs in Europe (in math/physics) as there are in the US? How does funding compare?



For reference, I've been looking at schools in UK, Germany, and Switzerland(Although not so much Switzerland due to the high cost of living).



Thanks!







phd graduate-admissions graduate-school united-kingdom europe






share|improve this question













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asked 8 hours ago









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  • This is incredibly broad. A proper answer might take a book. Consider revising to lower the scope?

    – chessofnerd
    4 hours ago



















  • This is incredibly broad. A proper answer might take a book. Consider revising to lower the scope?

    – chessofnerd
    4 hours ago

















This is incredibly broad. A proper answer might take a book. Consider revising to lower the scope?

– chessofnerd
4 hours ago





This is incredibly broad. A proper answer might take a book. Consider revising to lower the scope?

– chessofnerd
4 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















8














I can give you some insight in Germany/Austria (phd in physics in Austria), not so much on the UK. Many countries in Europe now use the Bologna system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process#Qualifications_framework



It is normally a three step process for a phd: Bachelor programs is more or less equivalent to US undergrad, takes 3 years normally (all numbers with some variation depending on country and field) and ends with a bachelor degree BSc. Step two is a Master program, duration normally two years and mostly course orientated. Normally ends with a master's thesis, which involves independent research in a group under the supervision of a professor. This is a requirement for entering stage three, the phd. In general there is no funding for the master's years (maybe some for the half year during your thesis or if you TA), you are considered a student. Tuition fees depend on country/university and can be waived with stipends if you qualify (no fees in Austria though)



PhD is almost exclusively research in a specific research group and normally fully funded. Minimum duration is three years.



You see, that what you call graduate studies/phd in the US is separated into Masters and PhD in Europe, you obtain a Masters degree in the middle.



This also means that the application process is very different depending on stage. Let's say you want to start your masters in STEM in Europe. Setting visa considerations aside, for some universities you can just sign up for a Masters in Physics for instance, no entry exams. Some might require exams and charge you tuition fees.



One your done with you Masters, you can look for phd positions at either the same University or wherever you like. The availability of positions is tied to funding, which is normally under control of the leading professor of the group. So you apply to her/him and if they like you they can hire you. In most cases you don't have to get accepted by the university, you just enroll. A professor has to accept you. (Very different to the US). Often, you end up doing your phd within the group you wrote your master's thesis in.



On top of that there are graduate schools with extra funding where you apply to the program and the will assign you a supervisor.



So overall: Bacc-Master-Phd; 3-2-3 years






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Noldig is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • +1 nothing to add, only that imho the european system gives the student more choice, I wouldn't have liked the idea at all in a very broad scientific branch like physics to outline my future career/phd topic after bachelor degree. After 3 years you understand the basics of the physical theories, how research in physics works you get an idea during your master work, then you should have still choices imo

    – Michael Schmidt
    7 hours ago






  • 2





    It's slightly overstating things to call the Bologna process a system, since in many cases institutions essentially carried on doing what they did anyway, just handing out the extra tokens as necessary to fit the rather elastic Bologna model and notional "comparability".

    – origimbo
    7 hours ago











  • that's how my university called it, but yes the simply split the former 5 yrs degree into two degrees without any changes. Some other universities adapted though not always made things better

    – Noldig
    4 hours ago



















4














PhD as "apprentice researcher" job



Many institutions here seem treat their PhD process as something close to "apprentice researcher" job positions. When they have a vacancy for such an "apprentice researcher" (e.g. some funded project needs extra junior researchers and has funding for them), they'll put an advertisement for a potential student and this will be treated essentially as generic hiring process - the ad stating what skills they want, what will be the expected duties, and what salary they offer (Here's an example); and the candidates submitting their CVs to apply for the job, followed by some interviews and the institution picking the most relevant candidate and hiring them.



During that project you'd be expected to get hands-on research experience and prove that you're "not an apprentice" anymore by defending a thesis based on the research results you obtained in that role.






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    2 Answers
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    8














    I can give you some insight in Germany/Austria (phd in physics in Austria), not so much on the UK. Many countries in Europe now use the Bologna system
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process#Qualifications_framework



    It is normally a three step process for a phd: Bachelor programs is more or less equivalent to US undergrad, takes 3 years normally (all numbers with some variation depending on country and field) and ends with a bachelor degree BSc. Step two is a Master program, duration normally two years and mostly course orientated. Normally ends with a master's thesis, which involves independent research in a group under the supervision of a professor. This is a requirement for entering stage three, the phd. In general there is no funding for the master's years (maybe some for the half year during your thesis or if you TA), you are considered a student. Tuition fees depend on country/university and can be waived with stipends if you qualify (no fees in Austria though)



    PhD is almost exclusively research in a specific research group and normally fully funded. Minimum duration is three years.



    You see, that what you call graduate studies/phd in the US is separated into Masters and PhD in Europe, you obtain a Masters degree in the middle.



    This also means that the application process is very different depending on stage. Let's say you want to start your masters in STEM in Europe. Setting visa considerations aside, for some universities you can just sign up for a Masters in Physics for instance, no entry exams. Some might require exams and charge you tuition fees.



    One your done with you Masters, you can look for phd positions at either the same University or wherever you like. The availability of positions is tied to funding, which is normally under control of the leading professor of the group. So you apply to her/him and if they like you they can hire you. In most cases you don't have to get accepted by the university, you just enroll. A professor has to accept you. (Very different to the US). Often, you end up doing your phd within the group you wrote your master's thesis in.



    On top of that there are graduate schools with extra funding where you apply to the program and the will assign you a supervisor.



    So overall: Bacc-Master-Phd; 3-2-3 years






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    Noldig is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





















    • +1 nothing to add, only that imho the european system gives the student more choice, I wouldn't have liked the idea at all in a very broad scientific branch like physics to outline my future career/phd topic after bachelor degree. After 3 years you understand the basics of the physical theories, how research in physics works you get an idea during your master work, then you should have still choices imo

      – Michael Schmidt
      7 hours ago






    • 2





      It's slightly overstating things to call the Bologna process a system, since in many cases institutions essentially carried on doing what they did anyway, just handing out the extra tokens as necessary to fit the rather elastic Bologna model and notional "comparability".

      – origimbo
      7 hours ago











    • that's how my university called it, but yes the simply split the former 5 yrs degree into two degrees without any changes. Some other universities adapted though not always made things better

      – Noldig
      4 hours ago
















    8














    I can give you some insight in Germany/Austria (phd in physics in Austria), not so much on the UK. Many countries in Europe now use the Bologna system
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process#Qualifications_framework



    It is normally a three step process for a phd: Bachelor programs is more or less equivalent to US undergrad, takes 3 years normally (all numbers with some variation depending on country and field) and ends with a bachelor degree BSc. Step two is a Master program, duration normally two years and mostly course orientated. Normally ends with a master's thesis, which involves independent research in a group under the supervision of a professor. This is a requirement for entering stage three, the phd. In general there is no funding for the master's years (maybe some for the half year during your thesis or if you TA), you are considered a student. Tuition fees depend on country/university and can be waived with stipends if you qualify (no fees in Austria though)



    PhD is almost exclusively research in a specific research group and normally fully funded. Minimum duration is three years.



    You see, that what you call graduate studies/phd in the US is separated into Masters and PhD in Europe, you obtain a Masters degree in the middle.



    This also means that the application process is very different depending on stage. Let's say you want to start your masters in STEM in Europe. Setting visa considerations aside, for some universities you can just sign up for a Masters in Physics for instance, no entry exams. Some might require exams and charge you tuition fees.



    One your done with you Masters, you can look for phd positions at either the same University or wherever you like. The availability of positions is tied to funding, which is normally under control of the leading professor of the group. So you apply to her/him and if they like you they can hire you. In most cases you don't have to get accepted by the university, you just enroll. A professor has to accept you. (Very different to the US). Often, you end up doing your phd within the group you wrote your master's thesis in.



    On top of that there are graduate schools with extra funding where you apply to the program and the will assign you a supervisor.



    So overall: Bacc-Master-Phd; 3-2-3 years






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    Noldig is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





















    • +1 nothing to add, only that imho the european system gives the student more choice, I wouldn't have liked the idea at all in a very broad scientific branch like physics to outline my future career/phd topic after bachelor degree. After 3 years you understand the basics of the physical theories, how research in physics works you get an idea during your master work, then you should have still choices imo

      – Michael Schmidt
      7 hours ago






    • 2





      It's slightly overstating things to call the Bologna process a system, since in many cases institutions essentially carried on doing what they did anyway, just handing out the extra tokens as necessary to fit the rather elastic Bologna model and notional "comparability".

      – origimbo
      7 hours ago











    • that's how my university called it, but yes the simply split the former 5 yrs degree into two degrees without any changes. Some other universities adapted though not always made things better

      – Noldig
      4 hours ago














    8












    8








    8







    I can give you some insight in Germany/Austria (phd in physics in Austria), not so much on the UK. Many countries in Europe now use the Bologna system
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process#Qualifications_framework



    It is normally a three step process for a phd: Bachelor programs is more or less equivalent to US undergrad, takes 3 years normally (all numbers with some variation depending on country and field) and ends with a bachelor degree BSc. Step two is a Master program, duration normally two years and mostly course orientated. Normally ends with a master's thesis, which involves independent research in a group under the supervision of a professor. This is a requirement for entering stage three, the phd. In general there is no funding for the master's years (maybe some for the half year during your thesis or if you TA), you are considered a student. Tuition fees depend on country/university and can be waived with stipends if you qualify (no fees in Austria though)



    PhD is almost exclusively research in a specific research group and normally fully funded. Minimum duration is three years.



    You see, that what you call graduate studies/phd in the US is separated into Masters and PhD in Europe, you obtain a Masters degree in the middle.



    This also means that the application process is very different depending on stage. Let's say you want to start your masters in STEM in Europe. Setting visa considerations aside, for some universities you can just sign up for a Masters in Physics for instance, no entry exams. Some might require exams and charge you tuition fees.



    One your done with you Masters, you can look for phd positions at either the same University or wherever you like. The availability of positions is tied to funding, which is normally under control of the leading professor of the group. So you apply to her/him and if they like you they can hire you. In most cases you don't have to get accepted by the university, you just enroll. A professor has to accept you. (Very different to the US). Often, you end up doing your phd within the group you wrote your master's thesis in.



    On top of that there are graduate schools with extra funding where you apply to the program and the will assign you a supervisor.



    So overall: Bacc-Master-Phd; 3-2-3 years






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    Noldig is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.










    I can give you some insight in Germany/Austria (phd in physics in Austria), not so much on the UK. Many countries in Europe now use the Bologna system
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process#Qualifications_framework



    It is normally a three step process for a phd: Bachelor programs is more or less equivalent to US undergrad, takes 3 years normally (all numbers with some variation depending on country and field) and ends with a bachelor degree BSc. Step two is a Master program, duration normally two years and mostly course orientated. Normally ends with a master's thesis, which involves independent research in a group under the supervision of a professor. This is a requirement for entering stage three, the phd. In general there is no funding for the master's years (maybe some for the half year during your thesis or if you TA), you are considered a student. Tuition fees depend on country/university and can be waived with stipends if you qualify (no fees in Austria though)



    PhD is almost exclusively research in a specific research group and normally fully funded. Minimum duration is three years.



    You see, that what you call graduate studies/phd in the US is separated into Masters and PhD in Europe, you obtain a Masters degree in the middle.



    This also means that the application process is very different depending on stage. Let's say you want to start your masters in STEM in Europe. Setting visa considerations aside, for some universities you can just sign up for a Masters in Physics for instance, no entry exams. Some might require exams and charge you tuition fees.



    One your done with you Masters, you can look for phd positions at either the same University or wherever you like. The availability of positions is tied to funding, which is normally under control of the leading professor of the group. So you apply to her/him and if they like you they can hire you. In most cases you don't have to get accepted by the university, you just enroll. A professor has to accept you. (Very different to the US). Often, you end up doing your phd within the group you wrote your master's thesis in.



    On top of that there are graduate schools with extra funding where you apply to the program and the will assign you a supervisor.



    So overall: Bacc-Master-Phd; 3-2-3 years







    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    Noldig is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 4 hours ago









    Peteris

    4,8911929




    4,8911929






    New contributor




    Noldig is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    answered 7 hours ago









    NoldigNoldig

    1813




    1813




    New contributor




    Noldig is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





    New contributor





    Noldig is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    Noldig is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.













    • +1 nothing to add, only that imho the european system gives the student more choice, I wouldn't have liked the idea at all in a very broad scientific branch like physics to outline my future career/phd topic after bachelor degree. After 3 years you understand the basics of the physical theories, how research in physics works you get an idea during your master work, then you should have still choices imo

      – Michael Schmidt
      7 hours ago






    • 2





      It's slightly overstating things to call the Bologna process a system, since in many cases institutions essentially carried on doing what they did anyway, just handing out the extra tokens as necessary to fit the rather elastic Bologna model and notional "comparability".

      – origimbo
      7 hours ago











    • that's how my university called it, but yes the simply split the former 5 yrs degree into two degrees without any changes. Some other universities adapted though not always made things better

      – Noldig
      4 hours ago



















    • +1 nothing to add, only that imho the european system gives the student more choice, I wouldn't have liked the idea at all in a very broad scientific branch like physics to outline my future career/phd topic after bachelor degree. After 3 years you understand the basics of the physical theories, how research in physics works you get an idea during your master work, then you should have still choices imo

      – Michael Schmidt
      7 hours ago






    • 2





      It's slightly overstating things to call the Bologna process a system, since in many cases institutions essentially carried on doing what they did anyway, just handing out the extra tokens as necessary to fit the rather elastic Bologna model and notional "comparability".

      – origimbo
      7 hours ago











    • that's how my university called it, but yes the simply split the former 5 yrs degree into two degrees without any changes. Some other universities adapted though not always made things better

      – Noldig
      4 hours ago

















    +1 nothing to add, only that imho the european system gives the student more choice, I wouldn't have liked the idea at all in a very broad scientific branch like physics to outline my future career/phd topic after bachelor degree. After 3 years you understand the basics of the physical theories, how research in physics works you get an idea during your master work, then you should have still choices imo

    – Michael Schmidt
    7 hours ago





    +1 nothing to add, only that imho the european system gives the student more choice, I wouldn't have liked the idea at all in a very broad scientific branch like physics to outline my future career/phd topic after bachelor degree. After 3 years you understand the basics of the physical theories, how research in physics works you get an idea during your master work, then you should have still choices imo

    – Michael Schmidt
    7 hours ago




    2




    2





    It's slightly overstating things to call the Bologna process a system, since in many cases institutions essentially carried on doing what they did anyway, just handing out the extra tokens as necessary to fit the rather elastic Bologna model and notional "comparability".

    – origimbo
    7 hours ago





    It's slightly overstating things to call the Bologna process a system, since in many cases institutions essentially carried on doing what they did anyway, just handing out the extra tokens as necessary to fit the rather elastic Bologna model and notional "comparability".

    – origimbo
    7 hours ago













    that's how my university called it, but yes the simply split the former 5 yrs degree into two degrees without any changes. Some other universities adapted though not always made things better

    – Noldig
    4 hours ago





    that's how my university called it, but yes the simply split the former 5 yrs degree into two degrees without any changes. Some other universities adapted though not always made things better

    – Noldig
    4 hours ago











    4














    PhD as "apprentice researcher" job



    Many institutions here seem treat their PhD process as something close to "apprentice researcher" job positions. When they have a vacancy for such an "apprentice researcher" (e.g. some funded project needs extra junior researchers and has funding for them), they'll put an advertisement for a potential student and this will be treated essentially as generic hiring process - the ad stating what skills they want, what will be the expected duties, and what salary they offer (Here's an example); and the candidates submitting their CVs to apply for the job, followed by some interviews and the institution picking the most relevant candidate and hiring them.



    During that project you'd be expected to get hands-on research experience and prove that you're "not an apprentice" anymore by defending a thesis based on the research results you obtained in that role.






    share|improve this answer




























      4














      PhD as "apprentice researcher" job



      Many institutions here seem treat their PhD process as something close to "apprentice researcher" job positions. When they have a vacancy for such an "apprentice researcher" (e.g. some funded project needs extra junior researchers and has funding for them), they'll put an advertisement for a potential student and this will be treated essentially as generic hiring process - the ad stating what skills they want, what will be the expected duties, and what salary they offer (Here's an example); and the candidates submitting their CVs to apply for the job, followed by some interviews and the institution picking the most relevant candidate and hiring them.



      During that project you'd be expected to get hands-on research experience and prove that you're "not an apprentice" anymore by defending a thesis based on the research results you obtained in that role.






      share|improve this answer


























        4












        4








        4







        PhD as "apprentice researcher" job



        Many institutions here seem treat their PhD process as something close to "apprentice researcher" job positions. When they have a vacancy for such an "apprentice researcher" (e.g. some funded project needs extra junior researchers and has funding for them), they'll put an advertisement for a potential student and this will be treated essentially as generic hiring process - the ad stating what skills they want, what will be the expected duties, and what salary they offer (Here's an example); and the candidates submitting their CVs to apply for the job, followed by some interviews and the institution picking the most relevant candidate and hiring them.



        During that project you'd be expected to get hands-on research experience and prove that you're "not an apprentice" anymore by defending a thesis based on the research results you obtained in that role.






        share|improve this answer













        PhD as "apprentice researcher" job



        Many institutions here seem treat their PhD process as something close to "apprentice researcher" job positions. When they have a vacancy for such an "apprentice researcher" (e.g. some funded project needs extra junior researchers and has funding for them), they'll put an advertisement for a potential student and this will be treated essentially as generic hiring process - the ad stating what skills they want, what will be the expected duties, and what salary they offer (Here's an example); and the candidates submitting their CVs to apply for the job, followed by some interviews and the institution picking the most relevant candidate and hiring them.



        During that project you'd be expected to get hands-on research experience and prove that you're "not an apprentice" anymore by defending a thesis based on the research results you obtained in that role.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 4 hours ago









        PeterisPeteris

        4,8911929




        4,8911929






























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