What does “south of due west” mean?
I was solving an astronomy problem which said "south of due west."
This could be interpreted in two different ways and I don't know which one is correct. Is 'south of' in that phrase an idiom? Or does it mean southwest?
meaning phrase-meaning technical
New contributor
add a comment |
I was solving an astronomy problem which said "south of due west."
This could be interpreted in two different ways and I don't know which one is correct. Is 'south of' in that phrase an idiom? Or does it mean southwest?
meaning phrase-meaning technical
New contributor
Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...
– Solar Mike
14 hours ago
Can you post more context?
– Acccumulation
10 hours ago
Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?
– snailboat♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
I was solving an astronomy problem which said "south of due west."
This could be interpreted in two different ways and I don't know which one is correct. Is 'south of' in that phrase an idiom? Or does it mean southwest?
meaning phrase-meaning technical
New contributor
I was solving an astronomy problem which said "south of due west."
This could be interpreted in two different ways and I don't know which one is correct. Is 'south of' in that phrase an idiom? Or does it mean southwest?
meaning phrase-meaning technical
meaning phrase-meaning technical
New contributor
New contributor
edited 4 hours ago
SamBC
5,715426
5,715426
New contributor
asked 14 hours ago
FafaFafa
283
283
New contributor
New contributor
Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...
– Solar Mike
14 hours ago
Can you post more context?
– Acccumulation
10 hours ago
Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?
– snailboat♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...
– Solar Mike
14 hours ago
Can you post more context?
– Acccumulation
10 hours ago
Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?
– snailboat♦
2 hours ago
Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...
– Solar Mike
14 hours ago
Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...
– Solar Mike
14 hours ago
Can you post more context?
– Acccumulation
10 hours ago
Can you post more context?
– Acccumulation
10 hours ago
Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?
– snailboat♦
2 hours ago
Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?
– snailboat♦
2 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
Look at a compass rose.
Look at W for west. Now move 'southwards', which is anticlockwise1 in this case, from the point for west. Somewhere in that region is "south of due west". You would expect it to be no nearer south than it is to west, as that would be "west of due south". Conventions vary, but I would tend to interpret "south of due west" WSW, or west-south-west, which is actually due west of south west. It might mean south-west, of course, or if you use a traditional mariner's compass (the compass rose of which has another degree of subdivision, for a total of 32 points), it might mean "west by south" (WbS), the point between W and WSW. Unless you have a clear idea of what the conventions of the text are, it could be any point anticlockwise of west and not anticlockwise of south-west.
1: In this case it is anticlockwise; 'southwards' from east would be clockwise.
There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
@SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
2
Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
1
You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
2
I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.
– Chris H
10 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
Although it could technically be anywhere between W and S, I would interpret that as being significantly closer to W than S. Probably somewhere between W and WSW.
add a comment |
A more precise expression would be something like "10° south of due west", which would be a heading of 260° (with 0° being due north, 90° due east, 180° due south, and 270° being due west). The less specific "(slightly) south of due west" would indicate a heading just slightly less than 270°, so essentially in a western direction, but a bit south-ish ...
add a comment |
Because it's in an astronomy context, there is a possible reason for this wording over "west-south-west" or "southwest". This could be not just a location, but directions on how to find it. Instead of trying to give a more precise compass direction, the phrase implies that you locate the celestial body in question by first looking due west, then slowly rotating your gaze/binoculars/telescope southwards until you come to the first body that matches the description of the body you're looking for.
So one might write "Betelgeuse is a red star that rises at 9:08 pm local time, South of due West." The intention is if a reader of that sentence wants to find Betelgeuse in the sky, they would go outside on a clear night at about 9:10 pm, locate due West, look in that direction and then start scanning to the South (left) of that point for a red star.
It's actually more helpful to locate stars by intentionally missing to one side and then knowing to look to the left or right of a compass point than it is to try to point at it directly. If you are trying to locate Betelgeuse (for example) by just pointing directly at it, and you don't see it, you don't know whether to scan left or right for it. If you deliberately start off at a point definitely to the right or left of what you're looking for, you always know which direction to scan in. Also, if you don't see it in your scan, you can go back to your reference point and start scanning outwards again, knowing that there's essentially "half the sky" you can ignore.
The same technique is used in some kinds of navigation/orienteering, and I remember seeing a question about that on the Outdoors Stack Exchange.
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
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Look at a compass rose.
Look at W for west. Now move 'southwards', which is anticlockwise1 in this case, from the point for west. Somewhere in that region is "south of due west". You would expect it to be no nearer south than it is to west, as that would be "west of due south". Conventions vary, but I would tend to interpret "south of due west" WSW, or west-south-west, which is actually due west of south west. It might mean south-west, of course, or if you use a traditional mariner's compass (the compass rose of which has another degree of subdivision, for a total of 32 points), it might mean "west by south" (WbS), the point between W and WSW. Unless you have a clear idea of what the conventions of the text are, it could be any point anticlockwise of west and not anticlockwise of south-west.
1: In this case it is anticlockwise; 'southwards' from east would be clockwise.
There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
@SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
2
Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
1
You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
2
I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.
– Chris H
10 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
Look at a compass rose.
Look at W for west. Now move 'southwards', which is anticlockwise1 in this case, from the point for west. Somewhere in that region is "south of due west". You would expect it to be no nearer south than it is to west, as that would be "west of due south". Conventions vary, but I would tend to interpret "south of due west" WSW, or west-south-west, which is actually due west of south west. It might mean south-west, of course, or if you use a traditional mariner's compass (the compass rose of which has another degree of subdivision, for a total of 32 points), it might mean "west by south" (WbS), the point between W and WSW. Unless you have a clear idea of what the conventions of the text are, it could be any point anticlockwise of west and not anticlockwise of south-west.
1: In this case it is anticlockwise; 'southwards' from east would be clockwise.
There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
@SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
2
Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
1
You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
2
I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.
– Chris H
10 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
Look at a compass rose.
Look at W for west. Now move 'southwards', which is anticlockwise1 in this case, from the point for west. Somewhere in that region is "south of due west". You would expect it to be no nearer south than it is to west, as that would be "west of due south". Conventions vary, but I would tend to interpret "south of due west" WSW, or west-south-west, which is actually due west of south west. It might mean south-west, of course, or if you use a traditional mariner's compass (the compass rose of which has another degree of subdivision, for a total of 32 points), it might mean "west by south" (WbS), the point between W and WSW. Unless you have a clear idea of what the conventions of the text are, it could be any point anticlockwise of west and not anticlockwise of south-west.
1: In this case it is anticlockwise; 'southwards' from east would be clockwise.
Look at a compass rose.
Look at W for west. Now move 'southwards', which is anticlockwise1 in this case, from the point for west. Somewhere in that region is "south of due west". You would expect it to be no nearer south than it is to west, as that would be "west of due south". Conventions vary, but I would tend to interpret "south of due west" WSW, or west-south-west, which is actually due west of south west. It might mean south-west, of course, or if you use a traditional mariner's compass (the compass rose of which has another degree of subdivision, for a total of 32 points), it might mean "west by south" (WbS), the point between W and WSW. Unless you have a clear idea of what the conventions of the text are, it could be any point anticlockwise of west and not anticlockwise of south-west.
1: In this case it is anticlockwise; 'southwards' from east would be clockwise.
edited 4 hours ago
answered 13 hours ago
SamBCSamBC
5,715426
5,715426
There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
@SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
2
Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
1
You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
2
I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.
– Chris H
10 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
@SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
2
Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
1
You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
2
I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.
– Chris H
10 hours ago
There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
There are more than 32 divisions on a compass...
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
@SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
@SolarMike: I meant the traditional compass rose configurations; have clarified.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
2
2
Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
Yes. Those 32 divisions are the "points". 3 points south of due west would be south-west by south. They later added half-points, so you could say "half a point west of south-west", and eventually quarter-points, giving 128 directions on the compass. I don't know if they've switched to using degrees nowadays; I know less about modern sailing than 19th century and earlier sailing.
– SamBC
13 hours ago
1
1
You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
You may find figure 39 in this link illuminating, perhaps the whole thing... : zapatopi.net/kelvin/papers/…
– Solar Mike
13 hours ago
2
2
I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.
– Chris H
10 hours ago
I'd interpret this as WbS (West by South ), i.e. 1/32 of a full circle anticlockwise from due west. This is (centred at) 258.75°. So if you're using a compass in degrees, ⪅ 260°. Or in practice start looking due west and shift a few degrees left, as it's easiest to find things if you know which side you're scanning from.
– Chris H
10 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
Although it could technically be anywhere between W and S, I would interpret that as being significantly closer to W than S. Probably somewhere between W and WSW.
add a comment |
Although it could technically be anywhere between W and S, I would interpret that as being significantly closer to W than S. Probably somewhere between W and WSW.
add a comment |
Although it could technically be anywhere between W and S, I would interpret that as being significantly closer to W than S. Probably somewhere between W and WSW.
Although it could technically be anywhere between W and S, I would interpret that as being significantly closer to W than S. Probably somewhere between W and WSW.
answered 10 hours ago
KevinKevin
3,8131219
3,8131219
add a comment |
add a comment |
A more precise expression would be something like "10° south of due west", which would be a heading of 260° (with 0° being due north, 90° due east, 180° due south, and 270° being due west). The less specific "(slightly) south of due west" would indicate a heading just slightly less than 270°, so essentially in a western direction, but a bit south-ish ...
add a comment |
A more precise expression would be something like "10° south of due west", which would be a heading of 260° (with 0° being due north, 90° due east, 180° due south, and 270° being due west). The less specific "(slightly) south of due west" would indicate a heading just slightly less than 270°, so essentially in a western direction, but a bit south-ish ...
add a comment |
A more precise expression would be something like "10° south of due west", which would be a heading of 260° (with 0° being due north, 90° due east, 180° due south, and 270° being due west). The less specific "(slightly) south of due west" would indicate a heading just slightly less than 270°, so essentially in a western direction, but a bit south-ish ...
A more precise expression would be something like "10° south of due west", which would be a heading of 260° (with 0° being due north, 90° due east, 180° due south, and 270° being due west). The less specific "(slightly) south of due west" would indicate a heading just slightly less than 270°, so essentially in a western direction, but a bit south-ish ...
answered 9 hours ago
Hagen von EitzenHagen von Eitzen
1345
1345
add a comment |
add a comment |
Because it's in an astronomy context, there is a possible reason for this wording over "west-south-west" or "southwest". This could be not just a location, but directions on how to find it. Instead of trying to give a more precise compass direction, the phrase implies that you locate the celestial body in question by first looking due west, then slowly rotating your gaze/binoculars/telescope southwards until you come to the first body that matches the description of the body you're looking for.
So one might write "Betelgeuse is a red star that rises at 9:08 pm local time, South of due West." The intention is if a reader of that sentence wants to find Betelgeuse in the sky, they would go outside on a clear night at about 9:10 pm, locate due West, look in that direction and then start scanning to the South (left) of that point for a red star.
It's actually more helpful to locate stars by intentionally missing to one side and then knowing to look to the left or right of a compass point than it is to try to point at it directly. If you are trying to locate Betelgeuse (for example) by just pointing directly at it, and you don't see it, you don't know whether to scan left or right for it. If you deliberately start off at a point definitely to the right or left of what you're looking for, you always know which direction to scan in. Also, if you don't see it in your scan, you can go back to your reference point and start scanning outwards again, knowing that there's essentially "half the sky" you can ignore.
The same technique is used in some kinds of navigation/orienteering, and I remember seeing a question about that on the Outdoors Stack Exchange.
add a comment |
Because it's in an astronomy context, there is a possible reason for this wording over "west-south-west" or "southwest". This could be not just a location, but directions on how to find it. Instead of trying to give a more precise compass direction, the phrase implies that you locate the celestial body in question by first looking due west, then slowly rotating your gaze/binoculars/telescope southwards until you come to the first body that matches the description of the body you're looking for.
So one might write "Betelgeuse is a red star that rises at 9:08 pm local time, South of due West." The intention is if a reader of that sentence wants to find Betelgeuse in the sky, they would go outside on a clear night at about 9:10 pm, locate due West, look in that direction and then start scanning to the South (left) of that point for a red star.
It's actually more helpful to locate stars by intentionally missing to one side and then knowing to look to the left or right of a compass point than it is to try to point at it directly. If you are trying to locate Betelgeuse (for example) by just pointing directly at it, and you don't see it, you don't know whether to scan left or right for it. If you deliberately start off at a point definitely to the right or left of what you're looking for, you always know which direction to scan in. Also, if you don't see it in your scan, you can go back to your reference point and start scanning outwards again, knowing that there's essentially "half the sky" you can ignore.
The same technique is used in some kinds of navigation/orienteering, and I remember seeing a question about that on the Outdoors Stack Exchange.
add a comment |
Because it's in an astronomy context, there is a possible reason for this wording over "west-south-west" or "southwest". This could be not just a location, but directions on how to find it. Instead of trying to give a more precise compass direction, the phrase implies that you locate the celestial body in question by first looking due west, then slowly rotating your gaze/binoculars/telescope southwards until you come to the first body that matches the description of the body you're looking for.
So one might write "Betelgeuse is a red star that rises at 9:08 pm local time, South of due West." The intention is if a reader of that sentence wants to find Betelgeuse in the sky, they would go outside on a clear night at about 9:10 pm, locate due West, look in that direction and then start scanning to the South (left) of that point for a red star.
It's actually more helpful to locate stars by intentionally missing to one side and then knowing to look to the left or right of a compass point than it is to try to point at it directly. If you are trying to locate Betelgeuse (for example) by just pointing directly at it, and you don't see it, you don't know whether to scan left or right for it. If you deliberately start off at a point definitely to the right or left of what you're looking for, you always know which direction to scan in. Also, if you don't see it in your scan, you can go back to your reference point and start scanning outwards again, knowing that there's essentially "half the sky" you can ignore.
The same technique is used in some kinds of navigation/orienteering, and I remember seeing a question about that on the Outdoors Stack Exchange.
Because it's in an astronomy context, there is a possible reason for this wording over "west-south-west" or "southwest". This could be not just a location, but directions on how to find it. Instead of trying to give a more precise compass direction, the phrase implies that you locate the celestial body in question by first looking due west, then slowly rotating your gaze/binoculars/telescope southwards until you come to the first body that matches the description of the body you're looking for.
So one might write "Betelgeuse is a red star that rises at 9:08 pm local time, South of due West." The intention is if a reader of that sentence wants to find Betelgeuse in the sky, they would go outside on a clear night at about 9:10 pm, locate due West, look in that direction and then start scanning to the South (left) of that point for a red star.
It's actually more helpful to locate stars by intentionally missing to one side and then knowing to look to the left or right of a compass point than it is to try to point at it directly. If you are trying to locate Betelgeuse (for example) by just pointing directly at it, and you don't see it, you don't know whether to scan left or right for it. If you deliberately start off at a point definitely to the right or left of what you're looking for, you always know which direction to scan in. Also, if you don't see it in your scan, you can go back to your reference point and start scanning outwards again, knowing that there's essentially "half the sky" you can ignore.
The same technique is used in some kinds of navigation/orienteering, and I remember seeing a question about that on the Outdoors Stack Exchange.
answered 3 hours ago
Todd WilcoxTodd Wilcox
845610
845610
add a comment |
add a comment |
Fafa is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Well, it could be "West SouthWest" or "SouthWest" or "South SouthWest" as these are points on the compass, or it could be 269 degrees...
– Solar Mike
14 hours ago
Can you post more context?
– Acccumulation
10 hours ago
Did it say something like "30 degrees south of due west"? What was the full sentence?
– snailboat♦
2 hours ago