Do spellcasters know that the Lesser and Greater Restoration spells can cure madness?
The lesser restoration spell description states:
You touch a creature and can end either one disease or one condition afflicting it. The condition can be blinded, deafened, paralyzed, or poisoned.
The description of greater restoration says:
You imbue a creature you touch with positive energy to undo a debilitating effect. You can reduce the target’s exhaustion level by one, or end one of the following effects on the target:
- One effect that charmed or petrified the target
- One curse, including the target’s attunement to a cursed magic item
- Any reduction to one of the target’s ability scores
- One effect reducing the target’s hit point maximum
But, on DMG page 260, under "Curing Madness", it says:
A calm emotions spell can suppress the effects of madness, while a lesser restoration spell can rid a character of a short-term or long-term madness. Depending on the source of the madness, remove curse or dispel evil and good might also prove effective. A greater restoration spell or more powerful magic is required to rid a character of indefinite madness.
Normally, the ruling is that specific takes precedence over general, but these are both pretty specific; additionally, this flies directly in the face of the concept of "spells do exactly what they say they do and nothing more", because both of these spells have an additional condition effect they can remove that isn't specified in the PHB at all.
So, as I put it in the title: Do casters know that these spells can cure madness? Or is this information excluded intentionally?
dnd-5e spells conditions sanity
add a comment |
The lesser restoration spell description states:
You touch a creature and can end either one disease or one condition afflicting it. The condition can be blinded, deafened, paralyzed, or poisoned.
The description of greater restoration says:
You imbue a creature you touch with positive energy to undo a debilitating effect. You can reduce the target’s exhaustion level by one, or end one of the following effects on the target:
- One effect that charmed or petrified the target
- One curse, including the target’s attunement to a cursed magic item
- Any reduction to one of the target’s ability scores
- One effect reducing the target’s hit point maximum
But, on DMG page 260, under "Curing Madness", it says:
A calm emotions spell can suppress the effects of madness, while a lesser restoration spell can rid a character of a short-term or long-term madness. Depending on the source of the madness, remove curse or dispel evil and good might also prove effective. A greater restoration spell or more powerful magic is required to rid a character of indefinite madness.
Normally, the ruling is that specific takes precedence over general, but these are both pretty specific; additionally, this flies directly in the face of the concept of "spells do exactly what they say they do and nothing more", because both of these spells have an additional condition effect they can remove that isn't specified in the PHB at all.
So, as I put it in the title: Do casters know that these spells can cure madness? Or is this information excluded intentionally?
dnd-5e spells conditions sanity
add a comment |
The lesser restoration spell description states:
You touch a creature and can end either one disease or one condition afflicting it. The condition can be blinded, deafened, paralyzed, or poisoned.
The description of greater restoration says:
You imbue a creature you touch with positive energy to undo a debilitating effect. You can reduce the target’s exhaustion level by one, or end one of the following effects on the target:
- One effect that charmed or petrified the target
- One curse, including the target’s attunement to a cursed magic item
- Any reduction to one of the target’s ability scores
- One effect reducing the target’s hit point maximum
But, on DMG page 260, under "Curing Madness", it says:
A calm emotions spell can suppress the effects of madness, while a lesser restoration spell can rid a character of a short-term or long-term madness. Depending on the source of the madness, remove curse or dispel evil and good might also prove effective. A greater restoration spell or more powerful magic is required to rid a character of indefinite madness.
Normally, the ruling is that specific takes precedence over general, but these are both pretty specific; additionally, this flies directly in the face of the concept of "spells do exactly what they say they do and nothing more", because both of these spells have an additional condition effect they can remove that isn't specified in the PHB at all.
So, as I put it in the title: Do casters know that these spells can cure madness? Or is this information excluded intentionally?
dnd-5e spells conditions sanity
The lesser restoration spell description states:
You touch a creature and can end either one disease or one condition afflicting it. The condition can be blinded, deafened, paralyzed, or poisoned.
The description of greater restoration says:
You imbue a creature you touch with positive energy to undo a debilitating effect. You can reduce the target’s exhaustion level by one, or end one of the following effects on the target:
- One effect that charmed or petrified the target
- One curse, including the target’s attunement to a cursed magic item
- Any reduction to one of the target’s ability scores
- One effect reducing the target’s hit point maximum
But, on DMG page 260, under "Curing Madness", it says:
A calm emotions spell can suppress the effects of madness, while a lesser restoration spell can rid a character of a short-term or long-term madness. Depending on the source of the madness, remove curse or dispel evil and good might also prove effective. A greater restoration spell or more powerful magic is required to rid a character of indefinite madness.
Normally, the ruling is that specific takes precedence over general, but these are both pretty specific; additionally, this flies directly in the face of the concept of "spells do exactly what they say they do and nothing more", because both of these spells have an additional condition effect they can remove that isn't specified in the PHB at all.
So, as I put it in the title: Do casters know that these spells can cure madness? Or is this information excluded intentionally?
dnd-5e spells conditions sanity
dnd-5e spells conditions sanity
edited 2 hours ago
V2Blast
19.9k357123
19.9k357123
asked 15 hours ago
L.S. CooperL.S. Cooper
3,1751125
3,1751125
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Additive, Not Exclusive
To address the first point... You have two specific sets of rules, but they don't conflict. The spells have a list of things they can do. The optional Madness rules add to the scope of the spells. You'll find other features scattered through the game (particularly in the Monster Manual) that say "This effect can be removed by ______."
While the Restoration spells don't natively say they're effective, other abilities can add to the capabilities of the spells. However, without some sort of supporting text, the Restoration spells are limited to the text of the spell itself.
Character Knowledge
The rules don't address it either way. Most DMs assume characters to be competent adventurers, familiar with the tools and techniques their class provides them.
Think of the characters like you would people. If this brand of deep madness is new to the characters or the society they come from, they very well might not know. In the very same game, you could conceivably have a character who's background story indicates experience within a sanitorium or asylum and that specific character would know. You could also abstract it with Arcana checks, if you'd like - base the DC on how obscure the whole concept of madness is in the world.
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
Thanks for corroborating basically how I'd ruled on this in the past! I wanted to be sure I wasn't doing something completely out of left field with this one.
– L.S. Cooper
14 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f138872%2fdo-spellcasters-know-that-the-lesser-and-greater-restoration-spells-can-cure-mad%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Additive, Not Exclusive
To address the first point... You have two specific sets of rules, but they don't conflict. The spells have a list of things they can do. The optional Madness rules add to the scope of the spells. You'll find other features scattered through the game (particularly in the Monster Manual) that say "This effect can be removed by ______."
While the Restoration spells don't natively say they're effective, other abilities can add to the capabilities of the spells. However, without some sort of supporting text, the Restoration spells are limited to the text of the spell itself.
Character Knowledge
The rules don't address it either way. Most DMs assume characters to be competent adventurers, familiar with the tools and techniques their class provides them.
Think of the characters like you would people. If this brand of deep madness is new to the characters or the society they come from, they very well might not know. In the very same game, you could conceivably have a character who's background story indicates experience within a sanitorium or asylum and that specific character would know. You could also abstract it with Arcana checks, if you'd like - base the DC on how obscure the whole concept of madness is in the world.
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
Thanks for corroborating basically how I'd ruled on this in the past! I wanted to be sure I wasn't doing something completely out of left field with this one.
– L.S. Cooper
14 hours ago
add a comment |
Additive, Not Exclusive
To address the first point... You have two specific sets of rules, but they don't conflict. The spells have a list of things they can do. The optional Madness rules add to the scope of the spells. You'll find other features scattered through the game (particularly in the Monster Manual) that say "This effect can be removed by ______."
While the Restoration spells don't natively say they're effective, other abilities can add to the capabilities of the spells. However, without some sort of supporting text, the Restoration spells are limited to the text of the spell itself.
Character Knowledge
The rules don't address it either way. Most DMs assume characters to be competent adventurers, familiar with the tools and techniques their class provides them.
Think of the characters like you would people. If this brand of deep madness is new to the characters or the society they come from, they very well might not know. In the very same game, you could conceivably have a character who's background story indicates experience within a sanitorium or asylum and that specific character would know. You could also abstract it with Arcana checks, if you'd like - base the DC on how obscure the whole concept of madness is in the world.
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
Thanks for corroborating basically how I'd ruled on this in the past! I wanted to be sure I wasn't doing something completely out of left field with this one.
– L.S. Cooper
14 hours ago
add a comment |
Additive, Not Exclusive
To address the first point... You have two specific sets of rules, but they don't conflict. The spells have a list of things they can do. The optional Madness rules add to the scope of the spells. You'll find other features scattered through the game (particularly in the Monster Manual) that say "This effect can be removed by ______."
While the Restoration spells don't natively say they're effective, other abilities can add to the capabilities of the spells. However, without some sort of supporting text, the Restoration spells are limited to the text of the spell itself.
Character Knowledge
The rules don't address it either way. Most DMs assume characters to be competent adventurers, familiar with the tools and techniques their class provides them.
Think of the characters like you would people. If this brand of deep madness is new to the characters or the society they come from, they very well might not know. In the very same game, you could conceivably have a character who's background story indicates experience within a sanitorium or asylum and that specific character would know. You could also abstract it with Arcana checks, if you'd like - base the DC on how obscure the whole concept of madness is in the world.
Additive, Not Exclusive
To address the first point... You have two specific sets of rules, but they don't conflict. The spells have a list of things they can do. The optional Madness rules add to the scope of the spells. You'll find other features scattered through the game (particularly in the Monster Manual) that say "This effect can be removed by ______."
While the Restoration spells don't natively say they're effective, other abilities can add to the capabilities of the spells. However, without some sort of supporting text, the Restoration spells are limited to the text of the spell itself.
Character Knowledge
The rules don't address it either way. Most DMs assume characters to be competent adventurers, familiar with the tools and techniques their class provides them.
Think of the characters like you would people. If this brand of deep madness is new to the characters or the society they come from, they very well might not know. In the very same game, you could conceivably have a character who's background story indicates experience within a sanitorium or asylum and that specific character would know. You could also abstract it with Arcana checks, if you'd like - base the DC on how obscure the whole concept of madness is in the world.
edited 15 hours ago
answered 15 hours ago
T.J.L.T.J.L.
30.1k5103160
30.1k5103160
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
Thanks for corroborating basically how I'd ruled on this in the past! I wanted to be sure I wasn't doing something completely out of left field with this one.
– L.S. Cooper
14 hours ago
add a comment |
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
Thanks for corroborating basically how I'd ruled on this in the past! I wanted to be sure I wasn't doing something completely out of left field with this one.
– L.S. Cooper
14 hours ago
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
– KorvinStarmast
15 hours ago
Thanks for corroborating basically how I'd ruled on this in the past! I wanted to be sure I wasn't doing something completely out of left field with this one.
– L.S. Cooper
14 hours ago
Thanks for corroborating basically how I'd ruled on this in the past! I wanted to be sure I wasn't doing something completely out of left field with this one.
– L.S. Cooper
14 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f138872%2fdo-spellcasters-know-that-the-lesser-and-greater-restoration-spells-can-cure-mad%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown