How to fool a DNA test (for dummies)
It is the year 2000 and Joe has committed a crime in a central European country. When the police calls all adults to voluntarily provide a DNA sample, Joe knows he's in trouble. He wants to fool the DNA test, but he doesn't understand much of the process. He has one week to come up with and implement a solution.
Joe knows from popular TV shows that a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap. The cells would then be processed into a fancy diagram with small lines and if his diagram lines up with the one from the crime scene, he'll end up in prison (that's all Joe understands of the process).
Diagram of DNA samples
The diagram is called a Southern blot membrane and is widely used in DNA profiling
Joe wants to coat the inside of his mouth with a substance that would produce additional lines on the diagram to "prove" that he is not the perpetrator. But he doesn't want to go all Hannibal Lecter and commit cannibalism to do so.
How would Joe try to fool this DNA test?
Answers should keep in mind:
Joe doesn't know enough about DNA profiling to be sure his idea would work. Asking another person (online or in person) is out of the question because it would lead to his suspicion.
It's the year 2000. The internet was a thing back then, but by far not as all-knowing as now. All solutions must have been available at that time (e.g. in a library, through anecdotal stories or widely spread missconceptions).
The solution doesn't have to actually work, but it must be plausible enough that a person with limited understanding of the process would assume it works. It must not be obvious (like having a visible amount of fresh blood in your mouth).
The solution must not require the commitment of a serious crime (like cannibalism). Burglary or deception is OK.
Answers will be rated by:
Ease of access to information (popular rumors will be rated higher than scientific papers)
Ease of access to materials (no exotic chemicals or materials a normal person wouldn't have access to)
Plausability. Whether or not the solution actually works is completely irrelevant for the rating, but it must sound believable.
science-based crime
|
show 10 more comments
It is the year 2000 and Joe has committed a crime in a central European country. When the police calls all adults to voluntarily provide a DNA sample, Joe knows he's in trouble. He wants to fool the DNA test, but he doesn't understand much of the process. He has one week to come up with and implement a solution.
Joe knows from popular TV shows that a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap. The cells would then be processed into a fancy diagram with small lines and if his diagram lines up with the one from the crime scene, he'll end up in prison (that's all Joe understands of the process).
Diagram of DNA samples
The diagram is called a Southern blot membrane and is widely used in DNA profiling
Joe wants to coat the inside of his mouth with a substance that would produce additional lines on the diagram to "prove" that he is not the perpetrator. But he doesn't want to go all Hannibal Lecter and commit cannibalism to do so.
How would Joe try to fool this DNA test?
Answers should keep in mind:
Joe doesn't know enough about DNA profiling to be sure his idea would work. Asking another person (online or in person) is out of the question because it would lead to his suspicion.
It's the year 2000. The internet was a thing back then, but by far not as all-knowing as now. All solutions must have been available at that time (e.g. in a library, through anecdotal stories or widely spread missconceptions).
The solution doesn't have to actually work, but it must be plausible enough that a person with limited understanding of the process would assume it works. It must not be obvious (like having a visible amount of fresh blood in your mouth).
The solution must not require the commitment of a serious crime (like cannibalism). Burglary or deception is OK.
Answers will be rated by:
Ease of access to information (popular rumors will be rated higher than scientific papers)
Ease of access to materials (no exotic chemicals or materials a normal person wouldn't have access to)
Plausability. Whether or not the solution actually works is completely irrelevant for the rating, but it must sound believable.
science-based crime
2
If the question wasn't staged in 2000 it would have started a potentially paradoxical loop... since asking on Worldbuilding also count as "asking to other person" ;)
– L.Dutch♦
yesterday
2
I'm obviously not Joe, so the universe will not get caught in paradoxical loops ;). I'm just having a hard time comming up with a plausible way to fool / fraud a DNA test that doesn't involve cannibalism, which doesn't fit the mood of my story at all.
– Elmy
yesterday
If you didn't think of it, then Joe probably didn't either. :P
– Daniel B
yesterday
1
Why not fake an Id and send some other person to do the test?
– ghellquist
yesterday
1
@kikirex Oh this is intetesting. We just did the easy steps from (extremely simplified) extraction to detection. The actual brain works obviously take longer. I'll have to adapt the story somewhat to a more realistic timeframe.
– Elmy
7 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
It is the year 2000 and Joe has committed a crime in a central European country. When the police calls all adults to voluntarily provide a DNA sample, Joe knows he's in trouble. He wants to fool the DNA test, but he doesn't understand much of the process. He has one week to come up with and implement a solution.
Joe knows from popular TV shows that a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap. The cells would then be processed into a fancy diagram with small lines and if his diagram lines up with the one from the crime scene, he'll end up in prison (that's all Joe understands of the process).
Diagram of DNA samples
The diagram is called a Southern blot membrane and is widely used in DNA profiling
Joe wants to coat the inside of his mouth with a substance that would produce additional lines on the diagram to "prove" that he is not the perpetrator. But he doesn't want to go all Hannibal Lecter and commit cannibalism to do so.
How would Joe try to fool this DNA test?
Answers should keep in mind:
Joe doesn't know enough about DNA profiling to be sure his idea would work. Asking another person (online or in person) is out of the question because it would lead to his suspicion.
It's the year 2000. The internet was a thing back then, but by far not as all-knowing as now. All solutions must have been available at that time (e.g. in a library, through anecdotal stories or widely spread missconceptions).
The solution doesn't have to actually work, but it must be plausible enough that a person with limited understanding of the process would assume it works. It must not be obvious (like having a visible amount of fresh blood in your mouth).
The solution must not require the commitment of a serious crime (like cannibalism). Burglary or deception is OK.
Answers will be rated by:
Ease of access to information (popular rumors will be rated higher than scientific papers)
Ease of access to materials (no exotic chemicals or materials a normal person wouldn't have access to)
Plausability. Whether or not the solution actually works is completely irrelevant for the rating, but it must sound believable.
science-based crime
It is the year 2000 and Joe has committed a crime in a central European country. When the police calls all adults to voluntarily provide a DNA sample, Joe knows he's in trouble. He wants to fool the DNA test, but he doesn't understand much of the process. He has one week to come up with and implement a solution.
Joe knows from popular TV shows that a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap. The cells would then be processed into a fancy diagram with small lines and if his diagram lines up with the one from the crime scene, he'll end up in prison (that's all Joe understands of the process).
Diagram of DNA samples
The diagram is called a Southern blot membrane and is widely used in DNA profiling
Joe wants to coat the inside of his mouth with a substance that would produce additional lines on the diagram to "prove" that he is not the perpetrator. But he doesn't want to go all Hannibal Lecter and commit cannibalism to do so.
How would Joe try to fool this DNA test?
Answers should keep in mind:
Joe doesn't know enough about DNA profiling to be sure his idea would work. Asking another person (online or in person) is out of the question because it would lead to his suspicion.
It's the year 2000. The internet was a thing back then, but by far not as all-knowing as now. All solutions must have been available at that time (e.g. in a library, through anecdotal stories or widely spread missconceptions).
The solution doesn't have to actually work, but it must be plausible enough that a person with limited understanding of the process would assume it works. It must not be obvious (like having a visible amount of fresh blood in your mouth).
The solution must not require the commitment of a serious crime (like cannibalism). Burglary or deception is OK.
Answers will be rated by:
Ease of access to information (popular rumors will be rated higher than scientific papers)
Ease of access to materials (no exotic chemicals or materials a normal person wouldn't have access to)
Plausability. Whether or not the solution actually works is completely irrelevant for the rating, but it must sound believable.
science-based crime
science-based crime
edited yesterday
Separatrix
78k31184307
78k31184307
asked yesterday
Elmy
9,77411545
9,77411545
2
If the question wasn't staged in 2000 it would have started a potentially paradoxical loop... since asking on Worldbuilding also count as "asking to other person" ;)
– L.Dutch♦
yesterday
2
I'm obviously not Joe, so the universe will not get caught in paradoxical loops ;). I'm just having a hard time comming up with a plausible way to fool / fraud a DNA test that doesn't involve cannibalism, which doesn't fit the mood of my story at all.
– Elmy
yesterday
If you didn't think of it, then Joe probably didn't either. :P
– Daniel B
yesterday
1
Why not fake an Id and send some other person to do the test?
– ghellquist
yesterday
1
@kikirex Oh this is intetesting. We just did the easy steps from (extremely simplified) extraction to detection. The actual brain works obviously take longer. I'll have to adapt the story somewhat to a more realistic timeframe.
– Elmy
7 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
2
If the question wasn't staged in 2000 it would have started a potentially paradoxical loop... since asking on Worldbuilding also count as "asking to other person" ;)
– L.Dutch♦
yesterday
2
I'm obviously not Joe, so the universe will not get caught in paradoxical loops ;). I'm just having a hard time comming up with a plausible way to fool / fraud a DNA test that doesn't involve cannibalism, which doesn't fit the mood of my story at all.
– Elmy
yesterday
If you didn't think of it, then Joe probably didn't either. :P
– Daniel B
yesterday
1
Why not fake an Id and send some other person to do the test?
– ghellquist
yesterday
1
@kikirex Oh this is intetesting. We just did the easy steps from (extremely simplified) extraction to detection. The actual brain works obviously take longer. I'll have to adapt the story somewhat to a more realistic timeframe.
– Elmy
7 hours ago
2
2
If the question wasn't staged in 2000 it would have started a potentially paradoxical loop... since asking on Worldbuilding also count as "asking to other person" ;)
– L.Dutch♦
yesterday
If the question wasn't staged in 2000 it would have started a potentially paradoxical loop... since asking on Worldbuilding also count as "asking to other person" ;)
– L.Dutch♦
yesterday
2
2
I'm obviously not Joe, so the universe will not get caught in paradoxical loops ;). I'm just having a hard time comming up with a plausible way to fool / fraud a DNA test that doesn't involve cannibalism, which doesn't fit the mood of my story at all.
– Elmy
yesterday
I'm obviously not Joe, so the universe will not get caught in paradoxical loops ;). I'm just having a hard time comming up with a plausible way to fool / fraud a DNA test that doesn't involve cannibalism, which doesn't fit the mood of my story at all.
– Elmy
yesterday
If you didn't think of it, then Joe probably didn't either. :P
– Daniel B
yesterday
If you didn't think of it, then Joe probably didn't either. :P
– Daniel B
yesterday
1
1
Why not fake an Id and send some other person to do the test?
– ghellquist
yesterday
Why not fake an Id and send some other person to do the test?
– ghellquist
yesterday
1
1
@kikirex Oh this is intetesting. We just did the easy steps from (extremely simplified) extraction to detection. The actual brain works obviously take longer. I'll have to adapt the story somewhat to a more realistic timeframe.
– Elmy
7 hours ago
@kikirex Oh this is intetesting. We just did the easy steps from (extremely simplified) extraction to detection. The actual brain works obviously take longer. I'll have to adapt the story somewhat to a more realistic timeframe.
– Elmy
7 hours ago
|
show 10 more comments
11 Answers
11
active
oldest
votes
The movie Gattaca came out in 1997, so it is plausible that Joe has seen it.
The movie shows
an elaborate way to fool DNA test using biological samples from another human
Joe can the figure out that giving a deep French kiss (or some other intimate act involving exchange of genetic material) with someone else right before the test is taken might mix his DNA with the one coming from the other person.
1
Mission Impossible, 1996. Except this time the fake mask is inside your mouth.
– Mazura
yesterday
You might want to French-kiss a person of the same sex as DNA profiling includes a sex-indicating test (according to Wikipedia) and having bothes sexes show up on the test might really set off the lab technician to have a closer look. Gattaca nit-pick: it just served to make the first test fail to force the blood-test which then could be faked the way the whole scheme is set up to do.
– Ghanima
9 hours ago
Frenching somebody prior to the test might conceivably fail a DNA test. But it won’t fool it into detecting a different person instead.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
add a comment |
The simplest way to fail a swab test is contamination of the sample. Eating something too soon before the test will do the trick.
Though what he really wants is the DNA of another human rather than a sample that comes back as beef cattle. These days there's an app for that, but in 2000 he'd probably have had to find a suitable bar to get himself a mouthful of human DNA sample*.
It's definitely the sort of thing a young man in trouble in the period would be told by his mates would work.
*If you don't know what I mean, ask your mum. No, I mean, no, don't ask your mum!
1
Ha! This could be funny. But how soon is "too soon before the test"? I guess inviting someone for a little fun right around the corner of a police investigation would be suspicious as well.
– Elmy
yesterday
@Elmy, within an hour or so for eating something, I suspect you can use the same guidelines for other options
– Separatrix
yesterday
1
Does this mean that if I eat a sausage, my mouth will have the DNA of a sausage?
– kikirex
yesterday
@kikirex, that only works with wild haggis
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
@kikirex Sausage, no (too processed). Raw meat, yes.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Step 1:
Line his mouth with something to keep the swab from hitting his actual tissue. It would help if he knew if it would be a cheek swab or a palate swab. A retainer would work on the latter. The former is a bit harder, but not impossible. Think flesh colored cloth. Or bite wings used to hold the teeth in place prior to dental x-rays. Or a cutup dental dam (or condom) carefully placed in the mouth.
Step 2:
Put someone else's salvia into his mouth. The easiest way to do this without asking for help, would be to find someone's abandoned (but recently used) plastic water bottle with a couple sips left in it. There would be plenty of backwash.
Step 3:
Put in the blocking material. Sip the remaining water and hold in the mouth as long as possible. Don't swallow at all. Let excess water drip down the throat or spit it out. It would not be unreasonable for someone to sip water just before getting swabbed, since opening a dry mouth while someone pokes around in there is uncomfortable. He'd have to time it well.
Will this work?
Maybe.
There are 3 basic ways to collect DNA for testing: Saliva (requiring a fair amount; it can be done with far less, but not reliably), blood, and cells from the inside of the mouth, usually the cheek. (There are other methods such as from dead bodies, bone marrow, forensic from hair, dried spit, etc, and from amniotic fluid, but none of these are relevant in this case.)
I think it would be hard to eliminate his own DNA from the sample. But probably easy to contaminate the sample with someone else's.
But given that you're looking for what your character thinks will work (or is his best chance at working), this is it.
Would the person responsible for swabbing really not notice any of that?
– Azor Ahai
yesterday
1
@AzorAhai Depends. A carefully cut out and placed piece of rubber could go unnoticed. A clear retainer probably would. If "all adults" are being called up to provide samples, the testing centers are going to be slammed. Unless it's super obvious, no one is going to be peering in anyone's mouth or checking things out. You take an extra long q-tip, say "open", swab, stick it in the tube with the right label. Next! Also: the question asks what will the character think will work, not what will actually work.
– Cyn
yesterday
add a comment |
Hold something radioactive, to any degree, in or near his mouth for some amount of time at any point prior to the test.
"Radiation alters DNA" is a trope beyond question or examination for most people, and this was also the case in 2000. Especially given the weak understanding most people have about radiation and radioactivity there are a lot of things Joe might see on some blog and try out.
Pressing his face against a running microwave for a few hours? Worth it, to avoid prison. Eating lots of bananas? Sure! That's especially helpful if Joe is really set on coating his mouth with something (bananas are easy to mash up).
It won't work, of course. But it's plausible that someone like Joe might find information pointing to such a solution, or might assemble this plan from information he's able to run across on the internet. The idea being "it's still my DNA, but different from my actual DNA".
4
At first I thought "this is ridiculous", but depending on Joe's education, it's actually not too far fetched to be believable. I love the idea of him hugging a microwave and camping below a radio mast to "alter his DNA".
– Elmy
yesterday
Oh man, you totally stole the general direction I was going to take this in, except you came up with better ideas. Oh well...
– conman
7 hours ago
@Elmy In terms of terrible ideas that don't actually work, there is serious precedent for this sort of thing in real life, and it even inspired a large amount of research into human psychology. For the curious read up on McArthur Wheeler (medium.com/@littlebrown/…) and the dunning-kruger effect (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)
– conman
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Joe burgles a blood bank before he commits the crime (“burglary or deception is OK”). At the scene of the crime he spills plenty of stolen blood. The swabs taken from the scene of crime will contain far more DNA from random blood donors than from Joe, so when the forensics people amplify whatever markers they were using in 2000, Joe-derived template DNA will be out-competed in their PCR reaction by template from random blood donors. The forensics people will therefore have nothing to connect Joe to the scene of the crime.
By the year 2000, they probably weren't relying on Southern blots any more, but that shouldn't make any difference. If they do run a Southern blot (labeled DNA amplified from the crime scene probing a blot of Joe's DNA?), it's unlikely to hybridize more strongly to Joe's blot than to their control blots. If they sequence their crime-scene amplicon, it's not going to match the corresponding amplicon direct from Joe since Joe's signal in the crime-scene swab is swamped by the random blood donors' signals.
Other plausible sources of decoy DNA apart from burgling a blood bank? He could wander round a hospital in a borrowed white coat, and exfiltrate some fresh clinical waste from somewhere between operating theater and incinerator. Blood from a butcher's shop would be OK as the decoy if the forensics lab's PCR primers bind to sites that are conserved between humans and sheep/cattle. I don't know if this is the case (or was in 2000), but the primers must obviously have targets that are non-variable within the human population (they flank the variables regions), so perhaps it would work...
New contributor
"a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap": if the lab technician draws out a cotton coated with blood instead of saliva, it could raise suspicion more than anything else.
– kikirex
8 hours ago
add a comment |
See the episode of South Park (Season 21 Ep 3) where Randy wants his DNA sample to be that of a native American, and when the 23andme people come knocking on the door because of an inconsistency in his first sample he tells them to wait a minute and runs around South Park to find the Indian and gives him a deep French kiss to then run back to the people and give them a corrupted sample. Hope this helped.
New contributor
I mean this is an... interesting idea, but I don't this is as scientifically rigorous as the asker is wanting.
– The Great Duck
yesterday
1
@TheGreatDuck, it's another version of the plot from Gattaca that L.Dutch mentioned
– Separatrix
yesterday
Joe would have to be comically stupid to really believe this would work. It doesn't seem possible that he would attempt this.
– user45266
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I'm assuming that there's some fictional textbook, far-fetched (potentially farcical in complexity) answer with a reasonable success rate which involves lining the mouth with plastic/wax and covering with another sample. However, with the given premise that Joe isn't an expert (and may not ask an expert) I'd find it more feasible to have a "best guess" solution from Joe. A solution however that could - even on the periphery of probability work.
Joe's Reasoning
So "being Joe" for a moment:
- I must provide a sample garnered from another human being; showing up on the test as "feline" would be an evident dodge and is probably as likely in resulting in his arrest as a positive match.
- Preferably I would want to provide a sample from someone who is the same gender and race as me. It is most likely that visual observations would be taken by the testers when the sample is conducted (in part to thwart this type of evasion); if I show up as "White, Female" and I'm a Afro-Caribbean male then that's going to be a dead giveaway and an evident dodge.
- It would be less than desirable to simple contaminate/sully the sample garnered; again this is likely to result in a re-test and arrest.
Method 1
Given those lines of reasoning, I (Joe) would visit a gay bar and pick up a man who happens to be the same race as me. (Being 2000, the general populous isn't as open minded, but it is legal and I would know where to go, even if I didn't frequent them myself). I would try to do this on the evening before the test day, then put effort in to ensure he stays the night and doesn't slip out a long time before the test; make him some bacon and eggs, suggest he stays in bed a while, etc. As close to the test as possible (assuming it's a home-visit?), I'd passionately kiss my new partner (however abhorrent I might find it; it's possible I'm averse to members of my own sex in that way).
Now I appreciate that it's unlikely this method would work, however as you request it's not the success; it's the plausibility; access to materials; non expert-info. To me (Joe), it's a plausible attempt at dodging the test that I could have engineered myself. It's also a touch dramatic that I'm willing to engage a sexual partner of my own sex if I've never done that before, in order to overcome this challenge.
Method 2
Further research on this (yet not beyond the potential realms of Joe's reasoning; something he could garner easily from rumour), one of the main ways to dodge a test is to simply have someone else take the swab:
https://www.alphabiolabs.co.uk/learning-centre/can-someone-cheat-a-dna-test-2/
Now whilst Joe can't (them knowingly) involve anyone else, a higher chance of success may be appreciated if Joe disappears off with the swab in his hand for a moment, to take the sample from his still-sleeping partner (if the test was a home visit, early in the morning - something he would know in advance). NB. Evidently the officers conducting the test would have not followed "textbook regulation" by allowing Joe to leave their sight with the swab, but then - it's first thing in the morning - one of the officers is still hung over, and the other is a trainee! - I'm sure this could be explained off somehow.
Method 3
An alternate method 2, bit wacky but follows the rules; Joe previously worked as a magician's assistant whilst taking a gap year from university, and learned sleight of hand. He takes a swab of his sleeping partner before the officers arrive and switches it with the test swab.
New contributor
1
Depending on how open-minded Joe is, giving his one-night stand a blow-job the next morning might be better. Especially if he then rubs the semen around his cheeks. However, a sensitive DNA test should be able to detect that the sample is haploid (sperm/egg) rather than diploid (normal cell)
– CSM
14 hours ago
add a comment |
What about a late identity-theft attack?
Joe may switch the samples on their way to the lab. He can figure someway to replace the tag labels of a few samples including his own. This way the case would end up with a suspect - definitely not Joe - who will be jailed and close the case for good.
New contributor
add a comment |
Chew hair.
Joe would feasibly have seen TV or movies where a strand of hair is used to identify someone.
He thinks therefore that it can also be used to be a source of alternate/confusing DNA and can pinch a strand from a co-worker's jacket.
I like this. It's believable to Joe, and it's simple.
– user45266
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Fooling the test is an utterly stupid idea to begin with
If you fool the test insofar as the result will be unusable, you will be asked to do it again. If the result is again unusable, you are highly suspect (probably after the first time already, anyway).
If you fool the test insofar as to show someone else's DNA, you are likely to be caught because there's a good chance the other person is undergoing, or will (at some undetermined point in the future) be undergoing the same test.
Also, whatever crimes the other person has already committed or will commit, you will be linked to them. Also, it's a felony to cheat on the test (whereas not doing it isn't).
Not complying is a viable (although tedious) option. I'm talking out of experience because I've been in that exact situation in 2000. Well not the exact situation, as I didn't commit the crime. But close enough anyway.
If you are in a place like, I don't know, China (?) then you are probably out of luck, but the question says Central Europe.
Central Europe means police asks and you say "no". Per Article 11, European Convention No. 5 (which is legally binding in all states), this means you are innocent unless police can prove something different. They can't, unless there is a witness or other evidence (obviously there isn't or they wouldn't do a mass screening) or unless you comply. So well, don't comply. "Doctor, it hurts when I do this. -- Don't do it."
The Convention 5 is fundamentally legally binding in all European states (and even some non-European ones) since early/mid/late 1951 / early 1952, depending which state exactly it is and on how fast the respective government was at declaring so.
The mere fact that police is trying to pervert the legal system to something which is similar to what we had in the Third Reich (proof of innocence instead of proof of guilt) is reason enough. By complying you give up your fundamental rights and subvert the system that is meant to protect you and other citizens from haphazard persecution. This should be reason enough for anyone to say "No". Unluckily, that's not the case. People take liberty as granted, but are not willing to make sacrifices to defend it.
Of course, being innocent (in real and by the law) doesn't mean you will be treated as innocent. Police tries to argue you into complying -- you have the chance to prove your innocence (which is really perverse because you have no need to prove your innocence, they need to prove your guilt). You say no.
Police keeps telling you there's only so-and-so-few suspects remaining, and then that there's only a handful remaining and you had better comply because they're already closing in on you anyway. You get letters, you get phone calls. One after one, they bully every non-complier into submission with this procedure. You say no.
Police starts showing up in your neighbourhood and at your workplace (yes I am not joking), doing what they can do to allege you are a culprit without explicitly saying it. They poke in every hole, try to find something, anything, whatever. They don't.
You file a complaint. Police says they never showed up, but if they did, then they'd be careful not to allege anything. Well, that means those people who told me police made allegations to them probably made this up. Funny how my neighbour knew I didn't do the test in the first place, he must be a psychic.
So, finally, after filing a complaint, you never hear of it again. Seriously, that's it. End of story.
17 years later, the guy who did it has died of old age, and his daughter finds body parts in some barrel in his cellar or garage (or whereever it was). It's in the newspapers, but you never hear as much as an excuse from police for having been falsely accused.
But whatever, as long as you never hear of them again, what do you care.
Thank you for your heartfelt answer, but if I was in such a situation, I would have asked a lawyer. This is about a fictional character who committed a fictional crime and his crazy plan to fool the test is supposed to add a funny interlude to the story.
– Elmy
13 hours ago
add a comment |
Joe may consider to send someone else with his ID to the hospital where the test samples are taken. The medical personnel usually does not question someone's identity when showing the valid invitation for sample taking and also they do not have sufficient experience of an ID check.
New contributor
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "579"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f135670%2fhow-to-fool-a-dna-test-for-dummies%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
11 Answers
11
active
oldest
votes
11 Answers
11
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The movie Gattaca came out in 1997, so it is plausible that Joe has seen it.
The movie shows
an elaborate way to fool DNA test using biological samples from another human
Joe can the figure out that giving a deep French kiss (or some other intimate act involving exchange of genetic material) with someone else right before the test is taken might mix his DNA with the one coming from the other person.
1
Mission Impossible, 1996. Except this time the fake mask is inside your mouth.
– Mazura
yesterday
You might want to French-kiss a person of the same sex as DNA profiling includes a sex-indicating test (according to Wikipedia) and having bothes sexes show up on the test might really set off the lab technician to have a closer look. Gattaca nit-pick: it just served to make the first test fail to force the blood-test which then could be faked the way the whole scheme is set up to do.
– Ghanima
9 hours ago
Frenching somebody prior to the test might conceivably fail a DNA test. But it won’t fool it into detecting a different person instead.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
add a comment |
The movie Gattaca came out in 1997, so it is plausible that Joe has seen it.
The movie shows
an elaborate way to fool DNA test using biological samples from another human
Joe can the figure out that giving a deep French kiss (or some other intimate act involving exchange of genetic material) with someone else right before the test is taken might mix his DNA with the one coming from the other person.
1
Mission Impossible, 1996. Except this time the fake mask is inside your mouth.
– Mazura
yesterday
You might want to French-kiss a person of the same sex as DNA profiling includes a sex-indicating test (according to Wikipedia) and having bothes sexes show up on the test might really set off the lab technician to have a closer look. Gattaca nit-pick: it just served to make the first test fail to force the blood-test which then could be faked the way the whole scheme is set up to do.
– Ghanima
9 hours ago
Frenching somebody prior to the test might conceivably fail a DNA test. But it won’t fool it into detecting a different person instead.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
add a comment |
The movie Gattaca came out in 1997, so it is plausible that Joe has seen it.
The movie shows
an elaborate way to fool DNA test using biological samples from another human
Joe can the figure out that giving a deep French kiss (or some other intimate act involving exchange of genetic material) with someone else right before the test is taken might mix his DNA with the one coming from the other person.
The movie Gattaca came out in 1997, so it is plausible that Joe has seen it.
The movie shows
an elaborate way to fool DNA test using biological samples from another human
Joe can the figure out that giving a deep French kiss (or some other intimate act involving exchange of genetic material) with someone else right before the test is taken might mix his DNA with the one coming from the other person.
edited yesterday
AlexP
35.5k779136
35.5k779136
answered yesterday
L.Dutch♦
77.9k26186380
77.9k26186380
1
Mission Impossible, 1996. Except this time the fake mask is inside your mouth.
– Mazura
yesterday
You might want to French-kiss a person of the same sex as DNA profiling includes a sex-indicating test (according to Wikipedia) and having bothes sexes show up on the test might really set off the lab technician to have a closer look. Gattaca nit-pick: it just served to make the first test fail to force the blood-test which then could be faked the way the whole scheme is set up to do.
– Ghanima
9 hours ago
Frenching somebody prior to the test might conceivably fail a DNA test. But it won’t fool it into detecting a different person instead.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Mission Impossible, 1996. Except this time the fake mask is inside your mouth.
– Mazura
yesterday
You might want to French-kiss a person of the same sex as DNA profiling includes a sex-indicating test (according to Wikipedia) and having bothes sexes show up on the test might really set off the lab technician to have a closer look. Gattaca nit-pick: it just served to make the first test fail to force the blood-test which then could be faked the way the whole scheme is set up to do.
– Ghanima
9 hours ago
Frenching somebody prior to the test might conceivably fail a DNA test. But it won’t fool it into detecting a different person instead.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
1
1
Mission Impossible, 1996. Except this time the fake mask is inside your mouth.
– Mazura
yesterday
Mission Impossible, 1996. Except this time the fake mask is inside your mouth.
– Mazura
yesterday
You might want to French-kiss a person of the same sex as DNA profiling includes a sex-indicating test (according to Wikipedia) and having bothes sexes show up on the test might really set off the lab technician to have a closer look. Gattaca nit-pick: it just served to make the first test fail to force the blood-test which then could be faked the way the whole scheme is set up to do.
– Ghanima
9 hours ago
You might want to French-kiss a person of the same sex as DNA profiling includes a sex-indicating test (according to Wikipedia) and having bothes sexes show up on the test might really set off the lab technician to have a closer look. Gattaca nit-pick: it just served to make the first test fail to force the blood-test which then could be faked the way the whole scheme is set up to do.
– Ghanima
9 hours ago
Frenching somebody prior to the test might conceivably fail a DNA test. But it won’t fool it into detecting a different person instead.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
Frenching somebody prior to the test might conceivably fail a DNA test. But it won’t fool it into detecting a different person instead.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
add a comment |
The simplest way to fail a swab test is contamination of the sample. Eating something too soon before the test will do the trick.
Though what he really wants is the DNA of another human rather than a sample that comes back as beef cattle. These days there's an app for that, but in 2000 he'd probably have had to find a suitable bar to get himself a mouthful of human DNA sample*.
It's definitely the sort of thing a young man in trouble in the period would be told by his mates would work.
*If you don't know what I mean, ask your mum. No, I mean, no, don't ask your mum!
1
Ha! This could be funny. But how soon is "too soon before the test"? I guess inviting someone for a little fun right around the corner of a police investigation would be suspicious as well.
– Elmy
yesterday
@Elmy, within an hour or so for eating something, I suspect you can use the same guidelines for other options
– Separatrix
yesterday
1
Does this mean that if I eat a sausage, my mouth will have the DNA of a sausage?
– kikirex
yesterday
@kikirex, that only works with wild haggis
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
@kikirex Sausage, no (too processed). Raw meat, yes.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
The simplest way to fail a swab test is contamination of the sample. Eating something too soon before the test will do the trick.
Though what he really wants is the DNA of another human rather than a sample that comes back as beef cattle. These days there's an app for that, but in 2000 he'd probably have had to find a suitable bar to get himself a mouthful of human DNA sample*.
It's definitely the sort of thing a young man in trouble in the period would be told by his mates would work.
*If you don't know what I mean, ask your mum. No, I mean, no, don't ask your mum!
1
Ha! This could be funny. But how soon is "too soon before the test"? I guess inviting someone for a little fun right around the corner of a police investigation would be suspicious as well.
– Elmy
yesterday
@Elmy, within an hour or so for eating something, I suspect you can use the same guidelines for other options
– Separatrix
yesterday
1
Does this mean that if I eat a sausage, my mouth will have the DNA of a sausage?
– kikirex
yesterday
@kikirex, that only works with wild haggis
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
@kikirex Sausage, no (too processed). Raw meat, yes.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
The simplest way to fail a swab test is contamination of the sample. Eating something too soon before the test will do the trick.
Though what he really wants is the DNA of another human rather than a sample that comes back as beef cattle. These days there's an app for that, but in 2000 he'd probably have had to find a suitable bar to get himself a mouthful of human DNA sample*.
It's definitely the sort of thing a young man in trouble in the period would be told by his mates would work.
*If you don't know what I mean, ask your mum. No, I mean, no, don't ask your mum!
The simplest way to fail a swab test is contamination of the sample. Eating something too soon before the test will do the trick.
Though what he really wants is the DNA of another human rather than a sample that comes back as beef cattle. These days there's an app for that, but in 2000 he'd probably have had to find a suitable bar to get himself a mouthful of human DNA sample*.
It's definitely the sort of thing a young man in trouble in the period would be told by his mates would work.
*If you don't know what I mean, ask your mum. No, I mean, no, don't ask your mum!
answered yesterday
Separatrix
78k31184307
78k31184307
1
Ha! This could be funny. But how soon is "too soon before the test"? I guess inviting someone for a little fun right around the corner of a police investigation would be suspicious as well.
– Elmy
yesterday
@Elmy, within an hour or so for eating something, I suspect you can use the same guidelines for other options
– Separatrix
yesterday
1
Does this mean that if I eat a sausage, my mouth will have the DNA of a sausage?
– kikirex
yesterday
@kikirex, that only works with wild haggis
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
@kikirex Sausage, no (too processed). Raw meat, yes.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
1
Ha! This could be funny. But how soon is "too soon before the test"? I guess inviting someone for a little fun right around the corner of a police investigation would be suspicious as well.
– Elmy
yesterday
@Elmy, within an hour or so for eating something, I suspect you can use the same guidelines for other options
– Separatrix
yesterday
1
Does this mean that if I eat a sausage, my mouth will have the DNA of a sausage?
– kikirex
yesterday
@kikirex, that only works with wild haggis
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
@kikirex Sausage, no (too processed). Raw meat, yes.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
1
1
Ha! This could be funny. But how soon is "too soon before the test"? I guess inviting someone for a little fun right around the corner of a police investigation would be suspicious as well.
– Elmy
yesterday
Ha! This could be funny. But how soon is "too soon before the test"? I guess inviting someone for a little fun right around the corner of a police investigation would be suspicious as well.
– Elmy
yesterday
@Elmy, within an hour or so for eating something, I suspect you can use the same guidelines for other options
– Separatrix
yesterday
@Elmy, within an hour or so for eating something, I suspect you can use the same guidelines for other options
– Separatrix
yesterday
1
1
Does this mean that if I eat a sausage, my mouth will have the DNA of a sausage?
– kikirex
yesterday
Does this mean that if I eat a sausage, my mouth will have the DNA of a sausage?
– kikirex
yesterday
@kikirex, that only works with wild haggis
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
@kikirex, that only works with wild haggis
– Separatrix
9 hours ago
@kikirex Sausage, no (too processed). Raw meat, yes.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
@kikirex Sausage, no (too processed). Raw meat, yes.
– Konrad Rudolph
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Step 1:
Line his mouth with something to keep the swab from hitting his actual tissue. It would help if he knew if it would be a cheek swab or a palate swab. A retainer would work on the latter. The former is a bit harder, but not impossible. Think flesh colored cloth. Or bite wings used to hold the teeth in place prior to dental x-rays. Or a cutup dental dam (or condom) carefully placed in the mouth.
Step 2:
Put someone else's salvia into his mouth. The easiest way to do this without asking for help, would be to find someone's abandoned (but recently used) plastic water bottle with a couple sips left in it. There would be plenty of backwash.
Step 3:
Put in the blocking material. Sip the remaining water and hold in the mouth as long as possible. Don't swallow at all. Let excess water drip down the throat or spit it out. It would not be unreasonable for someone to sip water just before getting swabbed, since opening a dry mouth while someone pokes around in there is uncomfortable. He'd have to time it well.
Will this work?
Maybe.
There are 3 basic ways to collect DNA for testing: Saliva (requiring a fair amount; it can be done with far less, but not reliably), blood, and cells from the inside of the mouth, usually the cheek. (There are other methods such as from dead bodies, bone marrow, forensic from hair, dried spit, etc, and from amniotic fluid, but none of these are relevant in this case.)
I think it would be hard to eliminate his own DNA from the sample. But probably easy to contaminate the sample with someone else's.
But given that you're looking for what your character thinks will work (or is his best chance at working), this is it.
Would the person responsible for swabbing really not notice any of that?
– Azor Ahai
yesterday
1
@AzorAhai Depends. A carefully cut out and placed piece of rubber could go unnoticed. A clear retainer probably would. If "all adults" are being called up to provide samples, the testing centers are going to be slammed. Unless it's super obvious, no one is going to be peering in anyone's mouth or checking things out. You take an extra long q-tip, say "open", swab, stick it in the tube with the right label. Next! Also: the question asks what will the character think will work, not what will actually work.
– Cyn
yesterday
add a comment |
Step 1:
Line his mouth with something to keep the swab from hitting his actual tissue. It would help if he knew if it would be a cheek swab or a palate swab. A retainer would work on the latter. The former is a bit harder, but not impossible. Think flesh colored cloth. Or bite wings used to hold the teeth in place prior to dental x-rays. Or a cutup dental dam (or condom) carefully placed in the mouth.
Step 2:
Put someone else's salvia into his mouth. The easiest way to do this without asking for help, would be to find someone's abandoned (but recently used) plastic water bottle with a couple sips left in it. There would be plenty of backwash.
Step 3:
Put in the blocking material. Sip the remaining water and hold in the mouth as long as possible. Don't swallow at all. Let excess water drip down the throat or spit it out. It would not be unreasonable for someone to sip water just before getting swabbed, since opening a dry mouth while someone pokes around in there is uncomfortable. He'd have to time it well.
Will this work?
Maybe.
There are 3 basic ways to collect DNA for testing: Saliva (requiring a fair amount; it can be done with far less, but not reliably), blood, and cells from the inside of the mouth, usually the cheek. (There are other methods such as from dead bodies, bone marrow, forensic from hair, dried spit, etc, and from amniotic fluid, but none of these are relevant in this case.)
I think it would be hard to eliminate his own DNA from the sample. But probably easy to contaminate the sample with someone else's.
But given that you're looking for what your character thinks will work (or is his best chance at working), this is it.
Would the person responsible for swabbing really not notice any of that?
– Azor Ahai
yesterday
1
@AzorAhai Depends. A carefully cut out and placed piece of rubber could go unnoticed. A clear retainer probably would. If "all adults" are being called up to provide samples, the testing centers are going to be slammed. Unless it's super obvious, no one is going to be peering in anyone's mouth or checking things out. You take an extra long q-tip, say "open", swab, stick it in the tube with the right label. Next! Also: the question asks what will the character think will work, not what will actually work.
– Cyn
yesterday
add a comment |
Step 1:
Line his mouth with something to keep the swab from hitting his actual tissue. It would help if he knew if it would be a cheek swab or a palate swab. A retainer would work on the latter. The former is a bit harder, but not impossible. Think flesh colored cloth. Or bite wings used to hold the teeth in place prior to dental x-rays. Or a cutup dental dam (or condom) carefully placed in the mouth.
Step 2:
Put someone else's salvia into his mouth. The easiest way to do this without asking for help, would be to find someone's abandoned (but recently used) plastic water bottle with a couple sips left in it. There would be plenty of backwash.
Step 3:
Put in the blocking material. Sip the remaining water and hold in the mouth as long as possible. Don't swallow at all. Let excess water drip down the throat or spit it out. It would not be unreasonable for someone to sip water just before getting swabbed, since opening a dry mouth while someone pokes around in there is uncomfortable. He'd have to time it well.
Will this work?
Maybe.
There are 3 basic ways to collect DNA for testing: Saliva (requiring a fair amount; it can be done with far less, but not reliably), blood, and cells from the inside of the mouth, usually the cheek. (There are other methods such as from dead bodies, bone marrow, forensic from hair, dried spit, etc, and from amniotic fluid, but none of these are relevant in this case.)
I think it would be hard to eliminate his own DNA from the sample. But probably easy to contaminate the sample with someone else's.
But given that you're looking for what your character thinks will work (or is his best chance at working), this is it.
Step 1:
Line his mouth with something to keep the swab from hitting his actual tissue. It would help if he knew if it would be a cheek swab or a palate swab. A retainer would work on the latter. The former is a bit harder, but not impossible. Think flesh colored cloth. Or bite wings used to hold the teeth in place prior to dental x-rays. Or a cutup dental dam (or condom) carefully placed in the mouth.
Step 2:
Put someone else's salvia into his mouth. The easiest way to do this without asking for help, would be to find someone's abandoned (but recently used) plastic water bottle with a couple sips left in it. There would be plenty of backwash.
Step 3:
Put in the blocking material. Sip the remaining water and hold in the mouth as long as possible. Don't swallow at all. Let excess water drip down the throat or spit it out. It would not be unreasonable for someone to sip water just before getting swabbed, since opening a dry mouth while someone pokes around in there is uncomfortable. He'd have to time it well.
Will this work?
Maybe.
There are 3 basic ways to collect DNA for testing: Saliva (requiring a fair amount; it can be done with far less, but not reliably), blood, and cells from the inside of the mouth, usually the cheek. (There are other methods such as from dead bodies, bone marrow, forensic from hair, dried spit, etc, and from amniotic fluid, but none of these are relevant in this case.)
I think it would be hard to eliminate his own DNA from the sample. But probably easy to contaminate the sample with someone else's.
But given that you're looking for what your character thinks will work (or is his best chance at working), this is it.
answered yesterday
Cyn
5,130933
5,130933
Would the person responsible for swabbing really not notice any of that?
– Azor Ahai
yesterday
1
@AzorAhai Depends. A carefully cut out and placed piece of rubber could go unnoticed. A clear retainer probably would. If "all adults" are being called up to provide samples, the testing centers are going to be slammed. Unless it's super obvious, no one is going to be peering in anyone's mouth or checking things out. You take an extra long q-tip, say "open", swab, stick it in the tube with the right label. Next! Also: the question asks what will the character think will work, not what will actually work.
– Cyn
yesterday
add a comment |
Would the person responsible for swabbing really not notice any of that?
– Azor Ahai
yesterday
1
@AzorAhai Depends. A carefully cut out and placed piece of rubber could go unnoticed. A clear retainer probably would. If "all adults" are being called up to provide samples, the testing centers are going to be slammed. Unless it's super obvious, no one is going to be peering in anyone's mouth or checking things out. You take an extra long q-tip, say "open", swab, stick it in the tube with the right label. Next! Also: the question asks what will the character think will work, not what will actually work.
– Cyn
yesterday
Would the person responsible for swabbing really not notice any of that?
– Azor Ahai
yesterday
Would the person responsible for swabbing really not notice any of that?
– Azor Ahai
yesterday
1
1
@AzorAhai Depends. A carefully cut out and placed piece of rubber could go unnoticed. A clear retainer probably would. If "all adults" are being called up to provide samples, the testing centers are going to be slammed. Unless it's super obvious, no one is going to be peering in anyone's mouth or checking things out. You take an extra long q-tip, say "open", swab, stick it in the tube with the right label. Next! Also: the question asks what will the character think will work, not what will actually work.
– Cyn
yesterday
@AzorAhai Depends. A carefully cut out and placed piece of rubber could go unnoticed. A clear retainer probably would. If "all adults" are being called up to provide samples, the testing centers are going to be slammed. Unless it's super obvious, no one is going to be peering in anyone's mouth or checking things out. You take an extra long q-tip, say "open", swab, stick it in the tube with the right label. Next! Also: the question asks what will the character think will work, not what will actually work.
– Cyn
yesterday
add a comment |
Hold something radioactive, to any degree, in or near his mouth for some amount of time at any point prior to the test.
"Radiation alters DNA" is a trope beyond question or examination for most people, and this was also the case in 2000. Especially given the weak understanding most people have about radiation and radioactivity there are a lot of things Joe might see on some blog and try out.
Pressing his face against a running microwave for a few hours? Worth it, to avoid prison. Eating lots of bananas? Sure! That's especially helpful if Joe is really set on coating his mouth with something (bananas are easy to mash up).
It won't work, of course. But it's plausible that someone like Joe might find information pointing to such a solution, or might assemble this plan from information he's able to run across on the internet. The idea being "it's still my DNA, but different from my actual DNA".
4
At first I thought "this is ridiculous", but depending on Joe's education, it's actually not too far fetched to be believable. I love the idea of him hugging a microwave and camping below a radio mast to "alter his DNA".
– Elmy
yesterday
Oh man, you totally stole the general direction I was going to take this in, except you came up with better ideas. Oh well...
– conman
7 hours ago
@Elmy In terms of terrible ideas that don't actually work, there is serious precedent for this sort of thing in real life, and it even inspired a large amount of research into human psychology. For the curious read up on McArthur Wheeler (medium.com/@littlebrown/…) and the dunning-kruger effect (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)
– conman
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Hold something radioactive, to any degree, in or near his mouth for some amount of time at any point prior to the test.
"Radiation alters DNA" is a trope beyond question or examination for most people, and this was also the case in 2000. Especially given the weak understanding most people have about radiation and radioactivity there are a lot of things Joe might see on some blog and try out.
Pressing his face against a running microwave for a few hours? Worth it, to avoid prison. Eating lots of bananas? Sure! That's especially helpful if Joe is really set on coating his mouth with something (bananas are easy to mash up).
It won't work, of course. But it's plausible that someone like Joe might find information pointing to such a solution, or might assemble this plan from information he's able to run across on the internet. The idea being "it's still my DNA, but different from my actual DNA".
4
At first I thought "this is ridiculous", but depending on Joe's education, it's actually not too far fetched to be believable. I love the idea of him hugging a microwave and camping below a radio mast to "alter his DNA".
– Elmy
yesterday
Oh man, you totally stole the general direction I was going to take this in, except you came up with better ideas. Oh well...
– conman
7 hours ago
@Elmy In terms of terrible ideas that don't actually work, there is serious precedent for this sort of thing in real life, and it even inspired a large amount of research into human psychology. For the curious read up on McArthur Wheeler (medium.com/@littlebrown/…) and the dunning-kruger effect (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)
– conman
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Hold something radioactive, to any degree, in or near his mouth for some amount of time at any point prior to the test.
"Radiation alters DNA" is a trope beyond question or examination for most people, and this was also the case in 2000. Especially given the weak understanding most people have about radiation and radioactivity there are a lot of things Joe might see on some blog and try out.
Pressing his face against a running microwave for a few hours? Worth it, to avoid prison. Eating lots of bananas? Sure! That's especially helpful if Joe is really set on coating his mouth with something (bananas are easy to mash up).
It won't work, of course. But it's plausible that someone like Joe might find information pointing to such a solution, or might assemble this plan from information he's able to run across on the internet. The idea being "it's still my DNA, but different from my actual DNA".
Hold something radioactive, to any degree, in or near his mouth for some amount of time at any point prior to the test.
"Radiation alters DNA" is a trope beyond question or examination for most people, and this was also the case in 2000. Especially given the weak understanding most people have about radiation and radioactivity there are a lot of things Joe might see on some blog and try out.
Pressing his face against a running microwave for a few hours? Worth it, to avoid prison. Eating lots of bananas? Sure! That's especially helpful if Joe is really set on coating his mouth with something (bananas are easy to mash up).
It won't work, of course. But it's plausible that someone like Joe might find information pointing to such a solution, or might assemble this plan from information he's able to run across on the internet. The idea being "it's still my DNA, but different from my actual DNA".
answered yesterday
Upper_Case
82036
82036
4
At first I thought "this is ridiculous", but depending on Joe's education, it's actually not too far fetched to be believable. I love the idea of him hugging a microwave and camping below a radio mast to "alter his DNA".
– Elmy
yesterday
Oh man, you totally stole the general direction I was going to take this in, except you came up with better ideas. Oh well...
– conman
7 hours ago
@Elmy In terms of terrible ideas that don't actually work, there is serious precedent for this sort of thing in real life, and it even inspired a large amount of research into human psychology. For the curious read up on McArthur Wheeler (medium.com/@littlebrown/…) and the dunning-kruger effect (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)
– conman
7 hours ago
add a comment |
4
At first I thought "this is ridiculous", but depending on Joe's education, it's actually not too far fetched to be believable. I love the idea of him hugging a microwave and camping below a radio mast to "alter his DNA".
– Elmy
yesterday
Oh man, you totally stole the general direction I was going to take this in, except you came up with better ideas. Oh well...
– conman
7 hours ago
@Elmy In terms of terrible ideas that don't actually work, there is serious precedent for this sort of thing in real life, and it even inspired a large amount of research into human psychology. For the curious read up on McArthur Wheeler (medium.com/@littlebrown/…) and the dunning-kruger effect (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)
– conman
7 hours ago
4
4
At first I thought "this is ridiculous", but depending on Joe's education, it's actually not too far fetched to be believable. I love the idea of him hugging a microwave and camping below a radio mast to "alter his DNA".
– Elmy
yesterday
At first I thought "this is ridiculous", but depending on Joe's education, it's actually not too far fetched to be believable. I love the idea of him hugging a microwave and camping below a radio mast to "alter his DNA".
– Elmy
yesterday
Oh man, you totally stole the general direction I was going to take this in, except you came up with better ideas. Oh well...
– conman
7 hours ago
Oh man, you totally stole the general direction I was going to take this in, except you came up with better ideas. Oh well...
– conman
7 hours ago
@Elmy In terms of terrible ideas that don't actually work, there is serious precedent for this sort of thing in real life, and it even inspired a large amount of research into human psychology. For the curious read up on McArthur Wheeler (medium.com/@littlebrown/…) and the dunning-kruger effect (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)
– conman
7 hours ago
@Elmy In terms of terrible ideas that don't actually work, there is serious precedent for this sort of thing in real life, and it even inspired a large amount of research into human psychology. For the curious read up on McArthur Wheeler (medium.com/@littlebrown/…) and the dunning-kruger effect (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)
– conman
7 hours ago
add a comment |
Joe burgles a blood bank before he commits the crime (“burglary or deception is OK”). At the scene of the crime he spills plenty of stolen blood. The swabs taken from the scene of crime will contain far more DNA from random blood donors than from Joe, so when the forensics people amplify whatever markers they were using in 2000, Joe-derived template DNA will be out-competed in their PCR reaction by template from random blood donors. The forensics people will therefore have nothing to connect Joe to the scene of the crime.
By the year 2000, they probably weren't relying on Southern blots any more, but that shouldn't make any difference. If they do run a Southern blot (labeled DNA amplified from the crime scene probing a blot of Joe's DNA?), it's unlikely to hybridize more strongly to Joe's blot than to their control blots. If they sequence their crime-scene amplicon, it's not going to match the corresponding amplicon direct from Joe since Joe's signal in the crime-scene swab is swamped by the random blood donors' signals.
Other plausible sources of decoy DNA apart from burgling a blood bank? He could wander round a hospital in a borrowed white coat, and exfiltrate some fresh clinical waste from somewhere between operating theater and incinerator. Blood from a butcher's shop would be OK as the decoy if the forensics lab's PCR primers bind to sites that are conserved between humans and sheep/cattle. I don't know if this is the case (or was in 2000), but the primers must obviously have targets that are non-variable within the human population (they flank the variables regions), so perhaps it would work...
New contributor
"a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap": if the lab technician draws out a cotton coated with blood instead of saliva, it could raise suspicion more than anything else.
– kikirex
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Joe burgles a blood bank before he commits the crime (“burglary or deception is OK”). At the scene of the crime he spills plenty of stolen blood. The swabs taken from the scene of crime will contain far more DNA from random blood donors than from Joe, so when the forensics people amplify whatever markers they were using in 2000, Joe-derived template DNA will be out-competed in their PCR reaction by template from random blood donors. The forensics people will therefore have nothing to connect Joe to the scene of the crime.
By the year 2000, they probably weren't relying on Southern blots any more, but that shouldn't make any difference. If they do run a Southern blot (labeled DNA amplified from the crime scene probing a blot of Joe's DNA?), it's unlikely to hybridize more strongly to Joe's blot than to their control blots. If they sequence their crime-scene amplicon, it's not going to match the corresponding amplicon direct from Joe since Joe's signal in the crime-scene swab is swamped by the random blood donors' signals.
Other plausible sources of decoy DNA apart from burgling a blood bank? He could wander round a hospital in a borrowed white coat, and exfiltrate some fresh clinical waste from somewhere between operating theater and incinerator. Blood from a butcher's shop would be OK as the decoy if the forensics lab's PCR primers bind to sites that are conserved between humans and sheep/cattle. I don't know if this is the case (or was in 2000), but the primers must obviously have targets that are non-variable within the human population (they flank the variables regions), so perhaps it would work...
New contributor
"a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap": if the lab technician draws out a cotton coated with blood instead of saliva, it could raise suspicion more than anything else.
– kikirex
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Joe burgles a blood bank before he commits the crime (“burglary or deception is OK”). At the scene of the crime he spills plenty of stolen blood. The swabs taken from the scene of crime will contain far more DNA from random blood donors than from Joe, so when the forensics people amplify whatever markers they were using in 2000, Joe-derived template DNA will be out-competed in their PCR reaction by template from random blood donors. The forensics people will therefore have nothing to connect Joe to the scene of the crime.
By the year 2000, they probably weren't relying on Southern blots any more, but that shouldn't make any difference. If they do run a Southern blot (labeled DNA amplified from the crime scene probing a blot of Joe's DNA?), it's unlikely to hybridize more strongly to Joe's blot than to their control blots. If they sequence their crime-scene amplicon, it's not going to match the corresponding amplicon direct from Joe since Joe's signal in the crime-scene swab is swamped by the random blood donors' signals.
Other plausible sources of decoy DNA apart from burgling a blood bank? He could wander round a hospital in a borrowed white coat, and exfiltrate some fresh clinical waste from somewhere between operating theater and incinerator. Blood from a butcher's shop would be OK as the decoy if the forensics lab's PCR primers bind to sites that are conserved between humans and sheep/cattle. I don't know if this is the case (or was in 2000), but the primers must obviously have targets that are non-variable within the human population (they flank the variables regions), so perhaps it would work...
New contributor
Joe burgles a blood bank before he commits the crime (“burglary or deception is OK”). At the scene of the crime he spills plenty of stolen blood. The swabs taken from the scene of crime will contain far more DNA from random blood donors than from Joe, so when the forensics people amplify whatever markers they were using in 2000, Joe-derived template DNA will be out-competed in their PCR reaction by template from random blood donors. The forensics people will therefore have nothing to connect Joe to the scene of the crime.
By the year 2000, they probably weren't relying on Southern blots any more, but that shouldn't make any difference. If they do run a Southern blot (labeled DNA amplified from the crime scene probing a blot of Joe's DNA?), it's unlikely to hybridize more strongly to Joe's blot than to their control blots. If they sequence their crime-scene amplicon, it's not going to match the corresponding amplicon direct from Joe since Joe's signal in the crime-scene swab is swamped by the random blood donors' signals.
Other plausible sources of decoy DNA apart from burgling a blood bank? He could wander round a hospital in a borrowed white coat, and exfiltrate some fresh clinical waste from somewhere between operating theater and incinerator. Blood from a butcher's shop would be OK as the decoy if the forensics lab's PCR primers bind to sites that are conserved between humans and sheep/cattle. I don't know if this is the case (or was in 2000), but the primers must obviously have targets that are non-variable within the human population (they flank the variables regions), so perhaps it would work...
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
Captain Ahab
411
411
New contributor
New contributor
"a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap": if the lab technician draws out a cotton coated with blood instead of saliva, it could raise suspicion more than anything else.
– kikirex
8 hours ago
add a comment |
"a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap": if the lab technician draws out a cotton coated with blood instead of saliva, it could raise suspicion more than anything else.
– kikirex
8 hours ago
"a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap": if the lab technician draws out a cotton coated with blood instead of saliva, it could raise suspicion more than anything else.
– kikirex
8 hours ago
"a sample of his cells would be taken by swiping the inside of his cheek with a cotton swap": if the lab technician draws out a cotton coated with blood instead of saliva, it could raise suspicion more than anything else.
– kikirex
8 hours ago
add a comment |
See the episode of South Park (Season 21 Ep 3) where Randy wants his DNA sample to be that of a native American, and when the 23andme people come knocking on the door because of an inconsistency in his first sample he tells them to wait a minute and runs around South Park to find the Indian and gives him a deep French kiss to then run back to the people and give them a corrupted sample. Hope this helped.
New contributor
I mean this is an... interesting idea, but I don't this is as scientifically rigorous as the asker is wanting.
– The Great Duck
yesterday
1
@TheGreatDuck, it's another version of the plot from Gattaca that L.Dutch mentioned
– Separatrix
yesterday
Joe would have to be comically stupid to really believe this would work. It doesn't seem possible that he would attempt this.
– user45266
1 hour ago
add a comment |
See the episode of South Park (Season 21 Ep 3) where Randy wants his DNA sample to be that of a native American, and when the 23andme people come knocking on the door because of an inconsistency in his first sample he tells them to wait a minute and runs around South Park to find the Indian and gives him a deep French kiss to then run back to the people and give them a corrupted sample. Hope this helped.
New contributor
I mean this is an... interesting idea, but I don't this is as scientifically rigorous as the asker is wanting.
– The Great Duck
yesterday
1
@TheGreatDuck, it's another version of the plot from Gattaca that L.Dutch mentioned
– Separatrix
yesterday
Joe would have to be comically stupid to really believe this would work. It doesn't seem possible that he would attempt this.
– user45266
1 hour ago
add a comment |
See the episode of South Park (Season 21 Ep 3) where Randy wants his DNA sample to be that of a native American, and when the 23andme people come knocking on the door because of an inconsistency in his first sample he tells them to wait a minute and runs around South Park to find the Indian and gives him a deep French kiss to then run back to the people and give them a corrupted sample. Hope this helped.
New contributor
See the episode of South Park (Season 21 Ep 3) where Randy wants his DNA sample to be that of a native American, and when the 23andme people come knocking on the door because of an inconsistency in his first sample he tells them to wait a minute and runs around South Park to find the Indian and gives him a deep French kiss to then run back to the people and give them a corrupted sample. Hope this helped.
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
F. The Great.
311
311
New contributor
New contributor
I mean this is an... interesting idea, but I don't this is as scientifically rigorous as the asker is wanting.
– The Great Duck
yesterday
1
@TheGreatDuck, it's another version of the plot from Gattaca that L.Dutch mentioned
– Separatrix
yesterday
Joe would have to be comically stupid to really believe this would work. It doesn't seem possible that he would attempt this.
– user45266
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I mean this is an... interesting idea, but I don't this is as scientifically rigorous as the asker is wanting.
– The Great Duck
yesterday
1
@TheGreatDuck, it's another version of the plot from Gattaca that L.Dutch mentioned
– Separatrix
yesterday
Joe would have to be comically stupid to really believe this would work. It doesn't seem possible that he would attempt this.
– user45266
1 hour ago
I mean this is an... interesting idea, but I don't this is as scientifically rigorous as the asker is wanting.
– The Great Duck
yesterday
I mean this is an... interesting idea, but I don't this is as scientifically rigorous as the asker is wanting.
– The Great Duck
yesterday
1
1
@TheGreatDuck, it's another version of the plot from Gattaca that L.Dutch mentioned
– Separatrix
yesterday
@TheGreatDuck, it's another version of the plot from Gattaca that L.Dutch mentioned
– Separatrix
yesterday
Joe would have to be comically stupid to really believe this would work. It doesn't seem possible that he would attempt this.
– user45266
1 hour ago
Joe would have to be comically stupid to really believe this would work. It doesn't seem possible that he would attempt this.
– user45266
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I'm assuming that there's some fictional textbook, far-fetched (potentially farcical in complexity) answer with a reasonable success rate which involves lining the mouth with plastic/wax and covering with another sample. However, with the given premise that Joe isn't an expert (and may not ask an expert) I'd find it more feasible to have a "best guess" solution from Joe. A solution however that could - even on the periphery of probability work.
Joe's Reasoning
So "being Joe" for a moment:
- I must provide a sample garnered from another human being; showing up on the test as "feline" would be an evident dodge and is probably as likely in resulting in his arrest as a positive match.
- Preferably I would want to provide a sample from someone who is the same gender and race as me. It is most likely that visual observations would be taken by the testers when the sample is conducted (in part to thwart this type of evasion); if I show up as "White, Female" and I'm a Afro-Caribbean male then that's going to be a dead giveaway and an evident dodge.
- It would be less than desirable to simple contaminate/sully the sample garnered; again this is likely to result in a re-test and arrest.
Method 1
Given those lines of reasoning, I (Joe) would visit a gay bar and pick up a man who happens to be the same race as me. (Being 2000, the general populous isn't as open minded, but it is legal and I would know where to go, even if I didn't frequent them myself). I would try to do this on the evening before the test day, then put effort in to ensure he stays the night and doesn't slip out a long time before the test; make him some bacon and eggs, suggest he stays in bed a while, etc. As close to the test as possible (assuming it's a home-visit?), I'd passionately kiss my new partner (however abhorrent I might find it; it's possible I'm averse to members of my own sex in that way).
Now I appreciate that it's unlikely this method would work, however as you request it's not the success; it's the plausibility; access to materials; non expert-info. To me (Joe), it's a plausible attempt at dodging the test that I could have engineered myself. It's also a touch dramatic that I'm willing to engage a sexual partner of my own sex if I've never done that before, in order to overcome this challenge.
Method 2
Further research on this (yet not beyond the potential realms of Joe's reasoning; something he could garner easily from rumour), one of the main ways to dodge a test is to simply have someone else take the swab:
https://www.alphabiolabs.co.uk/learning-centre/can-someone-cheat-a-dna-test-2/
Now whilst Joe can't (them knowingly) involve anyone else, a higher chance of success may be appreciated if Joe disappears off with the swab in his hand for a moment, to take the sample from his still-sleeping partner (if the test was a home visit, early in the morning - something he would know in advance). NB. Evidently the officers conducting the test would have not followed "textbook regulation" by allowing Joe to leave their sight with the swab, but then - it's first thing in the morning - one of the officers is still hung over, and the other is a trainee! - I'm sure this could be explained off somehow.
Method 3
An alternate method 2, bit wacky but follows the rules; Joe previously worked as a magician's assistant whilst taking a gap year from university, and learned sleight of hand. He takes a swab of his sleeping partner before the officers arrive and switches it with the test swab.
New contributor
1
Depending on how open-minded Joe is, giving his one-night stand a blow-job the next morning might be better. Especially if he then rubs the semen around his cheeks. However, a sensitive DNA test should be able to detect that the sample is haploid (sperm/egg) rather than diploid (normal cell)
– CSM
14 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm assuming that there's some fictional textbook, far-fetched (potentially farcical in complexity) answer with a reasonable success rate which involves lining the mouth with plastic/wax and covering with another sample. However, with the given premise that Joe isn't an expert (and may not ask an expert) I'd find it more feasible to have a "best guess" solution from Joe. A solution however that could - even on the periphery of probability work.
Joe's Reasoning
So "being Joe" for a moment:
- I must provide a sample garnered from another human being; showing up on the test as "feline" would be an evident dodge and is probably as likely in resulting in his arrest as a positive match.
- Preferably I would want to provide a sample from someone who is the same gender and race as me. It is most likely that visual observations would be taken by the testers when the sample is conducted (in part to thwart this type of evasion); if I show up as "White, Female" and I'm a Afro-Caribbean male then that's going to be a dead giveaway and an evident dodge.
- It would be less than desirable to simple contaminate/sully the sample garnered; again this is likely to result in a re-test and arrest.
Method 1
Given those lines of reasoning, I (Joe) would visit a gay bar and pick up a man who happens to be the same race as me. (Being 2000, the general populous isn't as open minded, but it is legal and I would know where to go, even if I didn't frequent them myself). I would try to do this on the evening before the test day, then put effort in to ensure he stays the night and doesn't slip out a long time before the test; make him some bacon and eggs, suggest he stays in bed a while, etc. As close to the test as possible (assuming it's a home-visit?), I'd passionately kiss my new partner (however abhorrent I might find it; it's possible I'm averse to members of my own sex in that way).
Now I appreciate that it's unlikely this method would work, however as you request it's not the success; it's the plausibility; access to materials; non expert-info. To me (Joe), it's a plausible attempt at dodging the test that I could have engineered myself. It's also a touch dramatic that I'm willing to engage a sexual partner of my own sex if I've never done that before, in order to overcome this challenge.
Method 2
Further research on this (yet not beyond the potential realms of Joe's reasoning; something he could garner easily from rumour), one of the main ways to dodge a test is to simply have someone else take the swab:
https://www.alphabiolabs.co.uk/learning-centre/can-someone-cheat-a-dna-test-2/
Now whilst Joe can't (them knowingly) involve anyone else, a higher chance of success may be appreciated if Joe disappears off with the swab in his hand for a moment, to take the sample from his still-sleeping partner (if the test was a home visit, early in the morning - something he would know in advance). NB. Evidently the officers conducting the test would have not followed "textbook regulation" by allowing Joe to leave their sight with the swab, but then - it's first thing in the morning - one of the officers is still hung over, and the other is a trainee! - I'm sure this could be explained off somehow.
Method 3
An alternate method 2, bit wacky but follows the rules; Joe previously worked as a magician's assistant whilst taking a gap year from university, and learned sleight of hand. He takes a swab of his sleeping partner before the officers arrive and switches it with the test swab.
New contributor
1
Depending on how open-minded Joe is, giving his one-night stand a blow-job the next morning might be better. Especially if he then rubs the semen around his cheeks. However, a sensitive DNA test should be able to detect that the sample is haploid (sperm/egg) rather than diploid (normal cell)
– CSM
14 hours ago
add a comment |
I'm assuming that there's some fictional textbook, far-fetched (potentially farcical in complexity) answer with a reasonable success rate which involves lining the mouth with plastic/wax and covering with another sample. However, with the given premise that Joe isn't an expert (and may not ask an expert) I'd find it more feasible to have a "best guess" solution from Joe. A solution however that could - even on the periphery of probability work.
Joe's Reasoning
So "being Joe" for a moment:
- I must provide a sample garnered from another human being; showing up on the test as "feline" would be an evident dodge and is probably as likely in resulting in his arrest as a positive match.
- Preferably I would want to provide a sample from someone who is the same gender and race as me. It is most likely that visual observations would be taken by the testers when the sample is conducted (in part to thwart this type of evasion); if I show up as "White, Female" and I'm a Afro-Caribbean male then that's going to be a dead giveaway and an evident dodge.
- It would be less than desirable to simple contaminate/sully the sample garnered; again this is likely to result in a re-test and arrest.
Method 1
Given those lines of reasoning, I (Joe) would visit a gay bar and pick up a man who happens to be the same race as me. (Being 2000, the general populous isn't as open minded, but it is legal and I would know where to go, even if I didn't frequent them myself). I would try to do this on the evening before the test day, then put effort in to ensure he stays the night and doesn't slip out a long time before the test; make him some bacon and eggs, suggest he stays in bed a while, etc. As close to the test as possible (assuming it's a home-visit?), I'd passionately kiss my new partner (however abhorrent I might find it; it's possible I'm averse to members of my own sex in that way).
Now I appreciate that it's unlikely this method would work, however as you request it's not the success; it's the plausibility; access to materials; non expert-info. To me (Joe), it's a plausible attempt at dodging the test that I could have engineered myself. It's also a touch dramatic that I'm willing to engage a sexual partner of my own sex if I've never done that before, in order to overcome this challenge.
Method 2
Further research on this (yet not beyond the potential realms of Joe's reasoning; something he could garner easily from rumour), one of the main ways to dodge a test is to simply have someone else take the swab:
https://www.alphabiolabs.co.uk/learning-centre/can-someone-cheat-a-dna-test-2/
Now whilst Joe can't (them knowingly) involve anyone else, a higher chance of success may be appreciated if Joe disappears off with the swab in his hand for a moment, to take the sample from his still-sleeping partner (if the test was a home visit, early in the morning - something he would know in advance). NB. Evidently the officers conducting the test would have not followed "textbook regulation" by allowing Joe to leave their sight with the swab, but then - it's first thing in the morning - one of the officers is still hung over, and the other is a trainee! - I'm sure this could be explained off somehow.
Method 3
An alternate method 2, bit wacky but follows the rules; Joe previously worked as a magician's assistant whilst taking a gap year from university, and learned sleight of hand. He takes a swab of his sleeping partner before the officers arrive and switches it with the test swab.
New contributor
I'm assuming that there's some fictional textbook, far-fetched (potentially farcical in complexity) answer with a reasonable success rate which involves lining the mouth with plastic/wax and covering with another sample. However, with the given premise that Joe isn't an expert (and may not ask an expert) I'd find it more feasible to have a "best guess" solution from Joe. A solution however that could - even on the periphery of probability work.
Joe's Reasoning
So "being Joe" for a moment:
- I must provide a sample garnered from another human being; showing up on the test as "feline" would be an evident dodge and is probably as likely in resulting in his arrest as a positive match.
- Preferably I would want to provide a sample from someone who is the same gender and race as me. It is most likely that visual observations would be taken by the testers when the sample is conducted (in part to thwart this type of evasion); if I show up as "White, Female" and I'm a Afro-Caribbean male then that's going to be a dead giveaway and an evident dodge.
- It would be less than desirable to simple contaminate/sully the sample garnered; again this is likely to result in a re-test and arrest.
Method 1
Given those lines of reasoning, I (Joe) would visit a gay bar and pick up a man who happens to be the same race as me. (Being 2000, the general populous isn't as open minded, but it is legal and I would know where to go, even if I didn't frequent them myself). I would try to do this on the evening before the test day, then put effort in to ensure he stays the night and doesn't slip out a long time before the test; make him some bacon and eggs, suggest he stays in bed a while, etc. As close to the test as possible (assuming it's a home-visit?), I'd passionately kiss my new partner (however abhorrent I might find it; it's possible I'm averse to members of my own sex in that way).
Now I appreciate that it's unlikely this method would work, however as you request it's not the success; it's the plausibility; access to materials; non expert-info. To me (Joe), it's a plausible attempt at dodging the test that I could have engineered myself. It's also a touch dramatic that I'm willing to engage a sexual partner of my own sex if I've never done that before, in order to overcome this challenge.
Method 2
Further research on this (yet not beyond the potential realms of Joe's reasoning; something he could garner easily from rumour), one of the main ways to dodge a test is to simply have someone else take the swab:
https://www.alphabiolabs.co.uk/learning-centre/can-someone-cheat-a-dna-test-2/
Now whilst Joe can't (them knowingly) involve anyone else, a higher chance of success may be appreciated if Joe disappears off with the swab in his hand for a moment, to take the sample from his still-sleeping partner (if the test was a home visit, early in the morning - something he would know in advance). NB. Evidently the officers conducting the test would have not followed "textbook regulation" by allowing Joe to leave their sight with the swab, but then - it's first thing in the morning - one of the officers is still hung over, and the other is a trainee! - I'm sure this could be explained off somehow.
Method 3
An alternate method 2, bit wacky but follows the rules; Joe previously worked as a magician's assistant whilst taking a gap year from university, and learned sleight of hand. He takes a swab of his sleeping partner before the officers arrive and switches it with the test swab.
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
Rab
3316
3316
New contributor
New contributor
1
Depending on how open-minded Joe is, giving his one-night stand a blow-job the next morning might be better. Especially if he then rubs the semen around his cheeks. However, a sensitive DNA test should be able to detect that the sample is haploid (sperm/egg) rather than diploid (normal cell)
– CSM
14 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Depending on how open-minded Joe is, giving his one-night stand a blow-job the next morning might be better. Especially if he then rubs the semen around his cheeks. However, a sensitive DNA test should be able to detect that the sample is haploid (sperm/egg) rather than diploid (normal cell)
– CSM
14 hours ago
1
1
Depending on how open-minded Joe is, giving his one-night stand a blow-job the next morning might be better. Especially if he then rubs the semen around his cheeks. However, a sensitive DNA test should be able to detect that the sample is haploid (sperm/egg) rather than diploid (normal cell)
– CSM
14 hours ago
Depending on how open-minded Joe is, giving his one-night stand a blow-job the next morning might be better. Especially if he then rubs the semen around his cheeks. However, a sensitive DNA test should be able to detect that the sample is haploid (sperm/egg) rather than diploid (normal cell)
– CSM
14 hours ago
add a comment |
What about a late identity-theft attack?
Joe may switch the samples on their way to the lab. He can figure someway to replace the tag labels of a few samples including his own. This way the case would end up with a suspect - definitely not Joe - who will be jailed and close the case for good.
New contributor
add a comment |
What about a late identity-theft attack?
Joe may switch the samples on their way to the lab. He can figure someway to replace the tag labels of a few samples including his own. This way the case would end up with a suspect - definitely not Joe - who will be jailed and close the case for good.
New contributor
add a comment |
What about a late identity-theft attack?
Joe may switch the samples on their way to the lab. He can figure someway to replace the tag labels of a few samples including his own. This way the case would end up with a suspect - definitely not Joe - who will be jailed and close the case for good.
New contributor
What about a late identity-theft attack?
Joe may switch the samples on their way to the lab. He can figure someway to replace the tag labels of a few samples including his own. This way the case would end up with a suspect - definitely not Joe - who will be jailed and close the case for good.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 18 hours ago
Red.Wave
1212
1212
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
Chew hair.
Joe would feasibly have seen TV or movies where a strand of hair is used to identify someone.
He thinks therefore that it can also be used to be a source of alternate/confusing DNA and can pinch a strand from a co-worker's jacket.
I like this. It's believable to Joe, and it's simple.
– user45266
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Chew hair.
Joe would feasibly have seen TV or movies where a strand of hair is used to identify someone.
He thinks therefore that it can also be used to be a source of alternate/confusing DNA and can pinch a strand from a co-worker's jacket.
I like this. It's believable to Joe, and it's simple.
– user45266
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Chew hair.
Joe would feasibly have seen TV or movies where a strand of hair is used to identify someone.
He thinks therefore that it can also be used to be a source of alternate/confusing DNA and can pinch a strand from a co-worker's jacket.
Chew hair.
Joe would feasibly have seen TV or movies where a strand of hair is used to identify someone.
He thinks therefore that it can also be used to be a source of alternate/confusing DNA and can pinch a strand from a co-worker's jacket.
answered 12 hours ago
Andy Dent
1493
1493
I like this. It's believable to Joe, and it's simple.
– user45266
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I like this. It's believable to Joe, and it's simple.
– user45266
1 hour ago
I like this. It's believable to Joe, and it's simple.
– user45266
1 hour ago
I like this. It's believable to Joe, and it's simple.
– user45266
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Fooling the test is an utterly stupid idea to begin with
If you fool the test insofar as the result will be unusable, you will be asked to do it again. If the result is again unusable, you are highly suspect (probably after the first time already, anyway).
If you fool the test insofar as to show someone else's DNA, you are likely to be caught because there's a good chance the other person is undergoing, or will (at some undetermined point in the future) be undergoing the same test.
Also, whatever crimes the other person has already committed or will commit, you will be linked to them. Also, it's a felony to cheat on the test (whereas not doing it isn't).
Not complying is a viable (although tedious) option. I'm talking out of experience because I've been in that exact situation in 2000. Well not the exact situation, as I didn't commit the crime. But close enough anyway.
If you are in a place like, I don't know, China (?) then you are probably out of luck, but the question says Central Europe.
Central Europe means police asks and you say "no". Per Article 11, European Convention No. 5 (which is legally binding in all states), this means you are innocent unless police can prove something different. They can't, unless there is a witness or other evidence (obviously there isn't or they wouldn't do a mass screening) or unless you comply. So well, don't comply. "Doctor, it hurts when I do this. -- Don't do it."
The Convention 5 is fundamentally legally binding in all European states (and even some non-European ones) since early/mid/late 1951 / early 1952, depending which state exactly it is and on how fast the respective government was at declaring so.
The mere fact that police is trying to pervert the legal system to something which is similar to what we had in the Third Reich (proof of innocence instead of proof of guilt) is reason enough. By complying you give up your fundamental rights and subvert the system that is meant to protect you and other citizens from haphazard persecution. This should be reason enough for anyone to say "No". Unluckily, that's not the case. People take liberty as granted, but are not willing to make sacrifices to defend it.
Of course, being innocent (in real and by the law) doesn't mean you will be treated as innocent. Police tries to argue you into complying -- you have the chance to prove your innocence (which is really perverse because you have no need to prove your innocence, they need to prove your guilt). You say no.
Police keeps telling you there's only so-and-so-few suspects remaining, and then that there's only a handful remaining and you had better comply because they're already closing in on you anyway. You get letters, you get phone calls. One after one, they bully every non-complier into submission with this procedure. You say no.
Police starts showing up in your neighbourhood and at your workplace (yes I am not joking), doing what they can do to allege you are a culprit without explicitly saying it. They poke in every hole, try to find something, anything, whatever. They don't.
You file a complaint. Police says they never showed up, but if they did, then they'd be careful not to allege anything. Well, that means those people who told me police made allegations to them probably made this up. Funny how my neighbour knew I didn't do the test in the first place, he must be a psychic.
So, finally, after filing a complaint, you never hear of it again. Seriously, that's it. End of story.
17 years later, the guy who did it has died of old age, and his daughter finds body parts in some barrel in his cellar or garage (or whereever it was). It's in the newspapers, but you never hear as much as an excuse from police for having been falsely accused.
But whatever, as long as you never hear of them again, what do you care.
Thank you for your heartfelt answer, but if I was in such a situation, I would have asked a lawyer. This is about a fictional character who committed a fictional crime and his crazy plan to fool the test is supposed to add a funny interlude to the story.
– Elmy
13 hours ago
add a comment |
Fooling the test is an utterly stupid idea to begin with
If you fool the test insofar as the result will be unusable, you will be asked to do it again. If the result is again unusable, you are highly suspect (probably after the first time already, anyway).
If you fool the test insofar as to show someone else's DNA, you are likely to be caught because there's a good chance the other person is undergoing, or will (at some undetermined point in the future) be undergoing the same test.
Also, whatever crimes the other person has already committed or will commit, you will be linked to them. Also, it's a felony to cheat on the test (whereas not doing it isn't).
Not complying is a viable (although tedious) option. I'm talking out of experience because I've been in that exact situation in 2000. Well not the exact situation, as I didn't commit the crime. But close enough anyway.
If you are in a place like, I don't know, China (?) then you are probably out of luck, but the question says Central Europe.
Central Europe means police asks and you say "no". Per Article 11, European Convention No. 5 (which is legally binding in all states), this means you are innocent unless police can prove something different. They can't, unless there is a witness or other evidence (obviously there isn't or they wouldn't do a mass screening) or unless you comply. So well, don't comply. "Doctor, it hurts when I do this. -- Don't do it."
The Convention 5 is fundamentally legally binding in all European states (and even some non-European ones) since early/mid/late 1951 / early 1952, depending which state exactly it is and on how fast the respective government was at declaring so.
The mere fact that police is trying to pervert the legal system to something which is similar to what we had in the Third Reich (proof of innocence instead of proof of guilt) is reason enough. By complying you give up your fundamental rights and subvert the system that is meant to protect you and other citizens from haphazard persecution. This should be reason enough for anyone to say "No". Unluckily, that's not the case. People take liberty as granted, but are not willing to make sacrifices to defend it.
Of course, being innocent (in real and by the law) doesn't mean you will be treated as innocent. Police tries to argue you into complying -- you have the chance to prove your innocence (which is really perverse because you have no need to prove your innocence, they need to prove your guilt). You say no.
Police keeps telling you there's only so-and-so-few suspects remaining, and then that there's only a handful remaining and you had better comply because they're already closing in on you anyway. You get letters, you get phone calls. One after one, they bully every non-complier into submission with this procedure. You say no.
Police starts showing up in your neighbourhood and at your workplace (yes I am not joking), doing what they can do to allege you are a culprit without explicitly saying it. They poke in every hole, try to find something, anything, whatever. They don't.
You file a complaint. Police says they never showed up, but if they did, then they'd be careful not to allege anything. Well, that means those people who told me police made allegations to them probably made this up. Funny how my neighbour knew I didn't do the test in the first place, he must be a psychic.
So, finally, after filing a complaint, you never hear of it again. Seriously, that's it. End of story.
17 years later, the guy who did it has died of old age, and his daughter finds body parts in some barrel in his cellar or garage (or whereever it was). It's in the newspapers, but you never hear as much as an excuse from police for having been falsely accused.
But whatever, as long as you never hear of them again, what do you care.
Thank you for your heartfelt answer, but if I was in such a situation, I would have asked a lawyer. This is about a fictional character who committed a fictional crime and his crazy plan to fool the test is supposed to add a funny interlude to the story.
– Elmy
13 hours ago
add a comment |
Fooling the test is an utterly stupid idea to begin with
If you fool the test insofar as the result will be unusable, you will be asked to do it again. If the result is again unusable, you are highly suspect (probably after the first time already, anyway).
If you fool the test insofar as to show someone else's DNA, you are likely to be caught because there's a good chance the other person is undergoing, or will (at some undetermined point in the future) be undergoing the same test.
Also, whatever crimes the other person has already committed or will commit, you will be linked to them. Also, it's a felony to cheat on the test (whereas not doing it isn't).
Not complying is a viable (although tedious) option. I'm talking out of experience because I've been in that exact situation in 2000. Well not the exact situation, as I didn't commit the crime. But close enough anyway.
If you are in a place like, I don't know, China (?) then you are probably out of luck, but the question says Central Europe.
Central Europe means police asks and you say "no". Per Article 11, European Convention No. 5 (which is legally binding in all states), this means you are innocent unless police can prove something different. They can't, unless there is a witness or other evidence (obviously there isn't or they wouldn't do a mass screening) or unless you comply. So well, don't comply. "Doctor, it hurts when I do this. -- Don't do it."
The Convention 5 is fundamentally legally binding in all European states (and even some non-European ones) since early/mid/late 1951 / early 1952, depending which state exactly it is and on how fast the respective government was at declaring so.
The mere fact that police is trying to pervert the legal system to something which is similar to what we had in the Third Reich (proof of innocence instead of proof of guilt) is reason enough. By complying you give up your fundamental rights and subvert the system that is meant to protect you and other citizens from haphazard persecution. This should be reason enough for anyone to say "No". Unluckily, that's not the case. People take liberty as granted, but are not willing to make sacrifices to defend it.
Of course, being innocent (in real and by the law) doesn't mean you will be treated as innocent. Police tries to argue you into complying -- you have the chance to prove your innocence (which is really perverse because you have no need to prove your innocence, they need to prove your guilt). You say no.
Police keeps telling you there's only so-and-so-few suspects remaining, and then that there's only a handful remaining and you had better comply because they're already closing in on you anyway. You get letters, you get phone calls. One after one, they bully every non-complier into submission with this procedure. You say no.
Police starts showing up in your neighbourhood and at your workplace (yes I am not joking), doing what they can do to allege you are a culprit without explicitly saying it. They poke in every hole, try to find something, anything, whatever. They don't.
You file a complaint. Police says they never showed up, but if they did, then they'd be careful not to allege anything. Well, that means those people who told me police made allegations to them probably made this up. Funny how my neighbour knew I didn't do the test in the first place, he must be a psychic.
So, finally, after filing a complaint, you never hear of it again. Seriously, that's it. End of story.
17 years later, the guy who did it has died of old age, and his daughter finds body parts in some barrel in his cellar or garage (or whereever it was). It's in the newspapers, but you never hear as much as an excuse from police for having been falsely accused.
But whatever, as long as you never hear of them again, what do you care.
Fooling the test is an utterly stupid idea to begin with
If you fool the test insofar as the result will be unusable, you will be asked to do it again. If the result is again unusable, you are highly suspect (probably after the first time already, anyway).
If you fool the test insofar as to show someone else's DNA, you are likely to be caught because there's a good chance the other person is undergoing, or will (at some undetermined point in the future) be undergoing the same test.
Also, whatever crimes the other person has already committed or will commit, you will be linked to them. Also, it's a felony to cheat on the test (whereas not doing it isn't).
Not complying is a viable (although tedious) option. I'm talking out of experience because I've been in that exact situation in 2000. Well not the exact situation, as I didn't commit the crime. But close enough anyway.
If you are in a place like, I don't know, China (?) then you are probably out of luck, but the question says Central Europe.
Central Europe means police asks and you say "no". Per Article 11, European Convention No. 5 (which is legally binding in all states), this means you are innocent unless police can prove something different. They can't, unless there is a witness or other evidence (obviously there isn't or they wouldn't do a mass screening) or unless you comply. So well, don't comply. "Doctor, it hurts when I do this. -- Don't do it."
The Convention 5 is fundamentally legally binding in all European states (and even some non-European ones) since early/mid/late 1951 / early 1952, depending which state exactly it is and on how fast the respective government was at declaring so.
The mere fact that police is trying to pervert the legal system to something which is similar to what we had in the Third Reich (proof of innocence instead of proof of guilt) is reason enough. By complying you give up your fundamental rights and subvert the system that is meant to protect you and other citizens from haphazard persecution. This should be reason enough for anyone to say "No". Unluckily, that's not the case. People take liberty as granted, but are not willing to make sacrifices to defend it.
Of course, being innocent (in real and by the law) doesn't mean you will be treated as innocent. Police tries to argue you into complying -- you have the chance to prove your innocence (which is really perverse because you have no need to prove your innocence, they need to prove your guilt). You say no.
Police keeps telling you there's only so-and-so-few suspects remaining, and then that there's only a handful remaining and you had better comply because they're already closing in on you anyway. You get letters, you get phone calls. One after one, they bully every non-complier into submission with this procedure. You say no.
Police starts showing up in your neighbourhood and at your workplace (yes I am not joking), doing what they can do to allege you are a culprit without explicitly saying it. They poke in every hole, try to find something, anything, whatever. They don't.
You file a complaint. Police says they never showed up, but if they did, then they'd be careful not to allege anything. Well, that means those people who told me police made allegations to them probably made this up. Funny how my neighbour knew I didn't do the test in the first place, he must be a psychic.
So, finally, after filing a complaint, you never hear of it again. Seriously, that's it. End of story.
17 years later, the guy who did it has died of old age, and his daughter finds body parts in some barrel in his cellar or garage (or whereever it was). It's in the newspapers, but you never hear as much as an excuse from police for having been falsely accused.
But whatever, as long as you never hear of them again, what do you care.
answered 14 hours ago
Damon
2,27249
2,27249
Thank you for your heartfelt answer, but if I was in such a situation, I would have asked a lawyer. This is about a fictional character who committed a fictional crime and his crazy plan to fool the test is supposed to add a funny interlude to the story.
– Elmy
13 hours ago
add a comment |
Thank you for your heartfelt answer, but if I was in such a situation, I would have asked a lawyer. This is about a fictional character who committed a fictional crime and his crazy plan to fool the test is supposed to add a funny interlude to the story.
– Elmy
13 hours ago
Thank you for your heartfelt answer, but if I was in such a situation, I would have asked a lawyer. This is about a fictional character who committed a fictional crime and his crazy plan to fool the test is supposed to add a funny interlude to the story.
– Elmy
13 hours ago
Thank you for your heartfelt answer, but if I was in such a situation, I would have asked a lawyer. This is about a fictional character who committed a fictional crime and his crazy plan to fool the test is supposed to add a funny interlude to the story.
– Elmy
13 hours ago
add a comment |
Joe may consider to send someone else with his ID to the hospital where the test samples are taken. The medical personnel usually does not question someone's identity when showing the valid invitation for sample taking and also they do not have sufficient experience of an ID check.
New contributor
add a comment |
Joe may consider to send someone else with his ID to the hospital where the test samples are taken. The medical personnel usually does not question someone's identity when showing the valid invitation for sample taking and also they do not have sufficient experience of an ID check.
New contributor
add a comment |
Joe may consider to send someone else with his ID to the hospital where the test samples are taken. The medical personnel usually does not question someone's identity when showing the valid invitation for sample taking and also they do not have sufficient experience of an ID check.
New contributor
Joe may consider to send someone else with his ID to the hospital where the test samples are taken. The medical personnel usually does not question someone's identity when showing the valid invitation for sample taking and also they do not have sufficient experience of an ID check.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 13 hours ago
Codigo
111
111
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f135670%2fhow-to-fool-a-dna-test-for-dummies%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
If the question wasn't staged in 2000 it would have started a potentially paradoxical loop... since asking on Worldbuilding also count as "asking to other person" ;)
– L.Dutch♦
yesterday
2
I'm obviously not Joe, so the universe will not get caught in paradoxical loops ;). I'm just having a hard time comming up with a plausible way to fool / fraud a DNA test that doesn't involve cannibalism, which doesn't fit the mood of my story at all.
– Elmy
yesterday
If you didn't think of it, then Joe probably didn't either. :P
– Daniel B
yesterday
1
Why not fake an Id and send some other person to do the test?
– ghellquist
yesterday
1
@kikirex Oh this is intetesting. We just did the easy steps from (extremely simplified) extraction to detection. The actual brain works obviously take longer. I'll have to adapt the story somewhat to a more realistic timeframe.
– Elmy
7 hours ago